Replace C28 with... ?


In my previous thread regarding a power amp, some of you commented that replacing the McIntosh C28 preamp would make a huge difference. However, what was missing was any elaboration how why you made the recommendation, and with what to replace it.

So, let’s get down to it.
McIntosh C28
HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro (Yes, I know... sacrilege, but it’s all I’ve got for now)
Bryston 4BST
Dahlquist DQ10
Polk PSW650 sub

Need guidance from you guys on whether I ought to be looking at SS, Tube or even a Passive unit. Since I have some skill with a soldering iron, I'm not above entertaining the idea of a kit.

I’ve seen the Tortuga LDRx and that concept looks pretty interesting. My worry is that the DQ10s can be a bit aggressive on the high end with that ribbon tweeter, so I’d like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again in advance!
parabolic

Showing 15 responses by parabolic

Correct - my error, I mis-spoke - meant to say 'piezo'.  Back to the question at hand...
Can we please focus on the question that was asked, instead of talking about the tweeter?

Thanks.
It’ll be here tomorrow. I’ll probably be sitting on the steps waiting for the UPS truck to pull up.

Another question to add to the list, is whether I ought to be looking for a Preamp with balanced outputs, since the amp supports that.
Not happy with my current SAE A202 amp - lacks staging depth, imaging is sometimes confused, it's a little thin, and not quite as musical as I'd hope.  Though it drives the DQ10s well enough, I think there's room for improvement, hence identifying it as the weak link in the system and replacing it with the 4BST. See my post here:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/another-which-amp-question

I listen to a wide variety of source material, mostly Jazz, Classical, traditional Rock and some pop, so I'm more or less all over the map.

Here are a few I have on the radar, in no specific order of preference, but need input from you guys who have more experience based on my equipment since I don't know what characteristics or advantages each may have over my C28:

Cary SLP-50
Threshold FET1
Krell KSL
BAT VK3
Conrad Johnson PV14L
McCormack Deluxe Line Drive
Tortuga LDRx

Other 'non-mainstream' suggestions have been:
Bottlehead
Prometheus TVC Reference


Y'know, one thing we may have overlooked... the Bryston is the PRO model.  Is it possible that a passive might actually work with this amp?

http://www.bryston.com/PDF/Other/STPRO_NOTES.pdf

Your HiFi Berry is probably going to put out very weak sound - there is really no power supply capability in this - I think everything runs off USB power or similar. There is no beefy power supply to push bass/midbass weight or punch. I would suspect the sound is very thin. A powerful preamp may help translate more bass, but it will not change the source waveforms much. The type of DAC may influence the type of preamp you’re after. For the HiFi berry or a different solid-state type DAC, I might look at the BAT preamps because of bass translation (BAT is very good at bass).
Excellent feedback - this is the sort of information I was hoping for to fill in the gaps of what I haven’t been thinking of, or knowledgeable about.

I have no plans for another DAC right now. So, based on your input, a tube would be the way to go, and I think we can rule out a passive unit because of the minimal power the HiFiBerry puts out.

Old school? Yeah, probably, but not as old as the speakers or current preamp, so that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. I know technology and materials research changes, but I’m not in a position to afford anything new, so I have to pick something that is pre-owned and falls in the area of my budget which is limited, to say the least.

So - in the SS vs Tube debate, what’s the difference in cost and characteristics between recapping or buying new tubes? Heck, talk about ’old school’, so do they even make tubes anymore or must I rely on old stock? I don’t want to paint myself into a corner by spending money on old technology that will be useless when the tubes fail because I can’t replace them.

Thanks in advance!
Well, fellas, I just took delivery of a 4BST Pro in a solid 8+/10 condition with 5 years left on the warranty.

Though I'm sure the C28 can be improved upon, in only an hour's time with the new amp I can already hear a decided change over the SAE.

Instruments are more 'articulate'
Imaging is more precise.
Staging is (surprisingly) both higher and deeper.

I can't wait to see what a new preamp will reveal. Though many have admonished me to look at a tube preamp, the diminishing availablility of 1940's technology worries me (i.e., ten years from now when the tubes need to be replaced there won't be any or they'll be a fortune), so I'm inclined to look at a SS unit.

Keep those cards and letters comin'.

Thanks!
Budget is roughly $1000, perhaps a little more depending on the opportunity, but less is better if I can find something great (read: non 'mainstream') or a 'deal' and save money.  I'm only spending that much, because my hope is to sell the C28 when I find something I'll be happy with.

On the upper end, I have my eye on a Krell KRC-3.  It's more than I wanted to spend, but hopefully I won't have to do this again for many years.  Besides, if I were to get something less expensive in the $800-ish range and have to re-cap it, I'm up in that price range anyway.  Then, on the lower end, the Threshold is in the $500-ish range.

Good to know that tube are still being made.  I had visions of spending lots of money for a paperweight if tubes were no longer available.

Narrowing it down to a handful, prices all over the map:
Krell KRC-3
Conrad Johnson PV14L
BAT VK3
Promitheus Reference TVC (not 'mainstream')
Threshold FET1


Can anyone comment on the differences between a Krell KRC-3 vs KSP-7B and if you think it'd go well with this system?
Hmmm...

So, then if anything high-end that I could afford will be older and would need a $300-ish recap job, there’s some question about whether or not I should be looking at tube units so I could (theoretically) replace them more easily and even experiment with different tubes to change the characteristics to ’tweak’ the unit.

Still on the fence. Cripes.

Maybe I’ll just keep the C28 and buy some good Scotch instead.

Let me re-frame the question.

Given the preamps I listed above (there's also a very nice Threshold FET1 available...), what sort of improvements do you guys think could I expect over the current C28? I have an idea of what I *hope* to hear, but would like to hear your opinions on what changes I can look forward to.
I was just about to click in here when mhztweaker posted the above.  Like him, I want a certain experience, but can't afford it new, so I have to look at (very) pre-owned equipment.

Just pulled the trigger on a KRC-3.  It's the earlier style with the more 'industrial' less streamlined faceplate, but the innards ought to be the same.

After all of this, I can only hope that a near 40 year-old C28 will be outperformed by a 20 year-old KRC-3.

Per the suggestion by auxinput, I might try to recap the unit, though that will have to wait until I can afford to do so.

Thanks to all for the very insightful input, it's been quite helpful!
I'll report in when I get the unit and have a chance to listen for a while.

In a world of disposable equipment, it's amazing to think that some components were built to last and are worthy of this sort of attention.  My philosophy has always been: "buy it once, buy it right".

Not sure if I'm comfortable doing the recap work myself.  Soldering new components?  Check.  Removing solder?  Not so much.  I guess I'll live with it for a while and see what happens.

Quick question on the KRC-3...

How would you attach the Polk PSW to the preamp?  I read the Krell manual and it says that both the balanced and single-ended outputs are active at the same time but that it wasn't advisable to connect both at the same time to a preamp.  Does that also apply to the Sub?  My plan was to connect the two RCA leads to the inputs on the Polk, and use balanced going to the Bryston.

Your thoughts?
Might just take you up on that offer, but not immediately. I think I’ll wait and see what changes the new preamp brings for a while, at least. Having borrowed the C28 back from my friend (it was out on loan for a while) I can tell you that I’m enjoying the HELL out of the new Bryston amp compared to the old SAE.

Right now I’m listening to Linda Rhonstadt / Nelson Riddle ’Round Midnight’ and it’s a dramatic improvement in every way. For example, the SAE used to put an edge on her voice and particularly in those long held notes there would be a brassy, shrill ’ringing’ that seemed to get stuck in the amp, and would just exhaust the hell out of me. Now? Gone.

Anyway, stay tuned. Send me your contact info so we can discuss sidebar.
Wow.

What a tremendous difference.  If the Bryston really made a huge improvement, the KRC-3 took it to the next level.  Far better imaging, much more fluid midrange... a huge change.

Looks like the C28 will be going up for sale shortly.  Shame to let her go, but I'm sure someone will give it a good home.

Thanks to all for your input.