Relationship between Ethernet Switch and SQ


This one will probably invite some withering mockery, but I will ask....

I only stream, and my streamer (Bryston BDP) is fed with an ethernet cable that runs back to my router.  Literally back to my router; there are enough output jacks on the router that I have a long run to the streamer and no ethernet switch in the chain (or the house system for that matter).   (There is an Eno filter right before the streamer).

I happen to OWN a nice LHY ethernet switch.  I am assuming that there is no reason to use it in this configuration, that is, assuming there are noisier switches, and less noisy switches, there is still no net benefit of adding any switch to this chain.  But maybe, just maybe, in the metaphysics of electrons that I do not understand, there is some reason why a nice switch prior to the streamer accomplishes something (in theory...I get that I can A/B test and try to fool myself whether I can hear a difference).  For the first person with a correct answer, I will mail a nice $600 switch to the address you specify! (JK)

mathiasmingus

Showing 9 responses by mathiasmingus

@lalitk It is an anclient Linksys EA 4200, but I have an ifi iPower supply on it and another one on the modem.  LMK is you think there are measurable gains to make in that department.  I had considered a new more powerful router for sake of non-audio network performance in the house, but I vaguely recall reading that doing so may be a net negative on audio noise.

On the CAT 8, a clear limitation I have is that I am using ancient CAT5 that runs under the floor and in the wall - probably not changeable without major impact.  But I can choose to just run nice new cable across the floor for listening - at least when my wife is not around (I do not have a dedicated audio room).  In fact, that is reason enough to add the switch! (Premium cable on the floor for serious listening, hidden cable if I want the room to look tidy for guests or whatever).

@ghdprentice  Would appreciate more guidance on the streamer.  I have always used Bryston BDPs (currenly a 2) because that is what I am familiar with from way back when.  Blunt, low feature devices, but with Bryston's reputation on build quality and the singular purpose of making and passing on a quiet digital audio signal, I have always suspected that they probably hold up pretty well from a SQ standpoint.  I'm talking AES/EBU - USB is another rabbit hole I do not want to mess with again anytime soon, and I suspect newer tech would be better.  But I have never tested another streamer.

@lalitk I should have had a little more confidence in my ability to listen critically.  The LHY, I am reasonably confident, is a net negative.  The music sounds just a tiny bit more thin and shrill.  So, nice new cable run across the floor straight into the Eno seems to be next, and curious what additional feedback I get on streamer and router.  As @ghdprentice says, I would suspect that streamer is the most important part, though I am not clear on how to best figure out how to get lift over the Bryston.  I don't care about a lot of features, just SQ.  

Thanks so much for all the food for thought.  I did not think I would immediately make a purchase based in this thread...but I did.  It may surprise you (for those who care to read on), but I include my reasons.  I bought …..another Bryston(!) - a BDP3.  Reasoning (following a moderate amount of research):

 

  1. I like the BDP2, and the BDP3 should provide some sonic uplift.
  2. My system has moved from silver to black - replacing a silver 2 with a black 3.
  3. The Bryston user interface is terrible - web based, and similar to a 1982 personal computer.
  4. ,,,which means a lot of people steer clear based on the interface.  But I am very comfortable with it at this point, including all the configuration details, and it is very reliable.
  5. Research generated a largely consistent message of: BDP3 is underrated, excellent SQ (cruddy interface).
  6. I just run AES/EBU.  For USB, I’m sure an Innuos Zenith Mk 3 + Phoenix (and certain other high-end gear mentioned here) would likely exceed. 
  7. Very clean unit negotiated for $2350 used (plus tax and shipping). 
  8. Great company with great build quality and support.
  9. 2 or 3 years from now, digital will likely have advanced again - I will reassess after having good sound at good value for a few more years.

 

So that’s what I did! Somebody may argue that was a poor play for some reason, but not much lost if so.  Thanks again for your input!

 

@audphile1 Oh yes, BDPs are Roon ready and I am a Roon user.  (Again with configuration details that may throw the unitiated).  I have not critically compared whether the Moose may sound better - I believe at least one person suggested so.  Which leads to the topic for another thread - I am DONE with Windows 11!  I used a dedicated Windows 11 laptop as my Roon core, and after the last Roon update, I have not been able to get Roon and Windows Defender to cooperate.  Enough.  Bought a used Roon nucleus which is in transit! And LPS to accompany.

@audphile1 I gathered that you dropped your Eno filter from the chain.  When I got mine, I did a very cursory test, detected little difference, and assumed it must be helpful.  I am reminded to go back and do a serious A/B and see if it is a net improvement or not.  Potentially even less clutter, a la @fastfreight!

@iseland cab you expand? You are suggesting convering IP data at the router and then back again, similar to the isolation approach in this (I think now relativelhy well known) video?

 

@lalitk et al, some partial empirical report-out as changes have occurred in my system: 

1. As noted earlier, I found LHY switch was a small negative on sound quality (as compared to no switch, if one can avoid the need).  I have not re-introduced it in the chain, but will test as you suggest.

2. ENO filter re-validated as a small improvement on sound quality.

3. Roon sounds worse than Manic Moose (native player, also known as Music Player Daemon or MPD) with Bryston BDP players.  There was another thread where people were debating whether Roon did or could have negative impact on SQ.  I hear some (at least as compared with BDP + Manic Moose combo, which may be a magic pairing).  This is streaming Tidal lossless, PCM and feeding Lampizator DAC.  Using Roon B Nucleus with an LHY LPS (LPS80VA). I was a Roon lover until I realized I would want MPD for critical listening...not sure I will want Roon for part-time use.  

5. I did get the Cat8 cable you recommended, and it is an impressive cable in the beefy connections and double shielding.  I like it...but have not yet compared it with the old Cat5 in the walls for SQ. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089N9HCSG?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

6. BDP3 shipping will be delayed a bit; all the above is using BDP2 still.  

So still need to compare CAT cable and give the LHY switch another chance.  I also changed routers, which adds variability to whatever I thought I heard before (never realized Roon could be a negative on SQ before, but I wasn't looking for it either). 

@lalitk I appreciate your guidance and agree with your methodology....but you have unrealistic assumptions about my capacity for discipline and focus. 😂  I'm also getting closer to understanding why streamers can be $20K or why people could spend $4k on a switch or $2k on a filter.  Dorothy, we're a long way from "bits is bits"!

I want to double-click on what @tonywinga said, which countered my intuition, which is that adding another audiophile switch improved SQ.  How can that be?  I was assuming that any additional component that has a power cord can only be a net negative (even if miniscule, in the case of $4k switches).  Unless good switches also ....filter ...or "regenerate" the signal, or have some property similar to impedence matching.  I'm not arguing that something heard was not real, just trying to understand the theoretical basis. 

@lalitk I think my joke missed - what I meant is that you implicitly expressed confidence in my capabilities and focus...which may not be grounded in reality. 😂