@nonoise oh wow. You can’t admit you are wrong ever so you continue the personal attacks? So, at 1:41 he clearly states that the backplane is the ground plane, with the channels being clean, he reinforces this at 4:20 what he called ground plane these channels go from the SFP to the CPU.
I know it is a lot, these things call facts. And I would really advise you stop projecting and advertise that you have issues with pills. Taking more when you face facts won’t help.
and what about the electrical jitter? Isolation gadget? And so on. Not enough meds to handle all that?
|
@audphile1 sure, but if they bees don’t get that they are supposed to collect the sweet stuff to create honey, but want to have in-depth “discussion” on how you need the oil from deep in the earth, there is no point.
to discuss any topic, you need a foundational level of knowledge at the very least, and most on this forum know absolutely nothing about how streaming actually works, but want to make it seem as if they do by throwing out terms like UDP and RTSP, or nano currents, because they read a debunked white paper by EtherRegen or watched a video regurgitating the same white paper by Hans B.
|
@tonywinga at least I know something about a topic, 😂🤣, hence your constant personal attacks.
|
@mathiasmingus
there is a very simple answer to your question, and it is the only answer, adding a switch in the chain can only deteriorate, it can never under any circumstance enhance. It is absolutely impossible and anyone telling you differently does not understand the technology.
a good switch only adds a bit of latency, a bad switch can cause frame drops and cause audible issues. that said, the switch needs to be pretty bad to cause issues for streaming services.
and on the topic of streaming, there is no such thing as continues stream, it is a series of downloads into a buffer. Any media over TCP/IP and Ethernet buffers. Regarding caching, at least according to Qobuz all players are supposed to cache, but some manufacturers want to fool their buyers by saving it is a better experience if you don’t cache, but that is just BS.
anyone with foundational knowledge of the topic can verify all of the above with a packet capture.
|
@audphile1 no, you are wrong. Do a packet capture like I said. There is no such thing as a continuous stream, for any media, over the internet. It is just not possible. Buffering doesn’t have to be in memory, especially not when it comes to something so small as an audio stream, but typically it is.
Qobuz still wants the player to cache all tracks, but does not force 3rd party players to do so. You really don’t need to explain caching or buffering to me.
|
@lalitk how about a 1M+ switch? I have plenty of experience with those. And they cannot do anything for SQ. It is impossible.
And anyone who does not know what a packet capture is or how to do one, you just do not have the prerequisite foundation to discuss the topic at all.
|
@fastfreight ? Yeah, I said that. Do you know how to do a packet capture?
|
@ozzy see my first post in this thread, spoiler, it doesn’t sound better.
|
@nonoise again, you can’t argue facts, so personal attacks. Again, at 1:41 in the video, he runs his fingers over the channels from the SFPs to the CPU and says this “is each set of signals that come in and then go directly to the chip notice that there's nothing else around them this important because that doesn't that means you're not going to get interference from other circuitry um also on the back side of the board this whole area is a is a ground plane so these are.” Copy paste from the transcript of the video.
but you can only lead a horse to water, I debunked everything that guy said in the video, showed you with links, and you still can’t admit it is humbug.
|
@lalitk how do you square these statements?
That’s interesting, certainly not my experience with LAN cables swapping. I should attribute this to the fabulous cache feature in my Aurender. I know not to attempt swapping IC, speaker or USB while equipment is ON 🤣
If your Aurender is reading from the cache, it is not using the Ethernet cable at all, so how would switching cables make a different?
|
@tonywinga no one has proven any of
your fanatical and fantastical claims, if they had people like John Swenson of UpTone wouldn’t be laughed out of every room he goes into.
|
@tonywinga provide a shred of evidence as I have been asking you for 8+ months per your own statements.
|
@tonywinga in the last thread you defined a troll as someone who cannot backup their claims and are only out to instigate confrontation (paraphrased), and I repeatedly asked you to back up your fanatical and fantastical claims, and you couldn’t, so, again, per your own definition, you are a troll. Every time you are asked to provide any at all supporting evidence of your outlandish claims, you take to personal attacks.
|
A lot of people really suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect in this forum, also known as cognitive bias, or the less you know about a topic the more you think you know about said topic.
|
@tonywinga
But you know, as an engineer I always worked with data and stood up for the truth
Thank you for the laugh of the year (early still). You have never in your life on this forum posted any data supporting anything you say, even though I have asked for it over and over again.
|
@nonoise so, the moderators did not like calling the guy what he is.
But either way, there are no measurements in that video, and the guy is clueless. He doesn't know anything about Ethernet at all as evident by the video.
for instance, he says all electronics are contained in the SFP, which is patently false. Open ANY switch and you will see this very clearly.
And then he says "don't use wifi unless you bought it from me". Yeah, sales guy at its finest.
Below is a link to an article describing what is in a switch, which proves that this guy is clueless. Completely clueless.
On top of that, he references a video by another guy who states why you shouldn't use wifi, and that guy "Apple TV X", correctly states that wifi has more than 10x latency, and therefore you shouldn't use it for audio. Well, it fails to account for buffering, and what the human ear can perceive. Wifi is perfectly fine for streaming audio.
In a residential setting, there is no RFI propagation through Ethernet, it is impossible. No one has ever posted anything factual to the contrary. Lots of people have posted things they think says this, but doesn't. Dunning-Kruger....
|
@tonywinga lots people don’t like what I have to say, but I doubt they would say I don’t know what I am talking about. Same can’t be said for you, who can’t post anything to support your fanatical and fantastical claims.
|
@nkphoto not everyone have relevant experience, and I did answer the question posted by OP, and immediately got attacked by people who have no relevant knowledge. But I guess when I am attacked I am ruining the vibe, black ain’t black, and white isn’t white, am I right?
get well soon
|
@cleeds The Dunning Kruger effect clearly shows that FACTS DO NOT MATTER to people who don't know them. But again, it is ok for everyone to jump on me when I answer the OP, but when I call them out for not knowing anything about the topic, I am the one insulting?
|
@nonoise How am I not an honest broker? Point to one post where I wasn't able to back up my statements or claims.
|
@nonoise no, that is not what I said. I said I know more about networking on this forum than anyone else. And so far this holds true.
Provide a link and I will explain why it is not relevant.
|
@nonoise ok, so first of, Microtik is a low end manufacturer that does everything in the CPU.
Then he says it ground canals on the circuit board, and that is complete wrong, you don't run ground from the SFP to the CPU, you run it to the ground.
Continuing - he says "electrical" jitter. There is no such thing. Does not exist, just made up to sound good I guess?
The reason it is "clean" is because it doesn't use FPGA, everything is run to 1 CPU. It's cheap designed, but for home use it won't matter.
Then he goes on and says that it is 10GBit chip, powerful and then says no one talks about the chip. Well, most modern designs don't use a CPU, they use FPGA, and then he talks about the throughput, yeah, every single switch worth its name is talking about it in specs, and not just jumbo frame throughput, but small frame throughput and frames per second.
he is however right about the more powerful the CPU is, the less jitter it will introduce. However, this is one of the reason why good switches don't use a CPU, they use FPGA.
Then he goes on a rant about double regulated voltage, also bunch of made up things. It does not improve stability of any component because it can handle two separate voltages. In fact, most higher end audio equipment like my Classe stack does the opposite to have more pure operation based on the voltage you use. So opposite of what he states.
"Dedicated ethernet port and dedicated isolation gadget" - oh my, where do I start here??? All made up again, according to the manufacture again, it's a LAN management port chip, nothing to do with isolation, link below.
https://www.xmultiple.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/XTFZ-PC13N1ZH.pdf
So, there you have it. Another "audiophile" switch debunked!
|
@nonoise who is the dishonest broker now?
he literally says the ground is on the backplane, and you can see that what he is running his hand over is between the SFPs and the CPU, so he is says the ground is connected to the CPU. That is what he is saying. He likely doesn’t understand what he is saying however.
Give me one article about electrical jitter? Electricity is in the analogue domain where jitter doesn’t exists. Are you perhaps confusing electrical and electronic?
it was definitely a rant. And double regulated doesn’t mean that you say it does,. It means it can handle two different ranges, for instance 200 - 240 and 100 - 120V. And he says it makes the component more stable, which it doesn’t.
a switch literally handles thousands of parallel threads per second, it is the only job of a switch.
And @nonoise, what about his ludicrous rant about isolation gadget? Pure fiction.
So, now you have proven yourself again to be a dishonest broker, for what?
|
@nonoise
No need to spend $3K for the one sold at GTT Audio but you'll have to source your own linear power supply and it won't have any of the mods in it but you'll be way ahead of the game for pennies on the dollar.
keep in mind that all communication devices are regulated by the FCC, and while they are not likely to care if you modify a switch as the worst case scenario is that you burn down your own house, it is very different with radios. It is illegal to sell and operate radios that have not been approved by the FCC, and that includes modifying existing radios. Unless of course his “modifications” to the Aruba access point doesn’t do anything , which is the most likely scenario, since any changes would need to include software update, and he doesn’t have source code access to the Aruba OS.
|
@deep_333
4 hour video about two guys listening to music seems pretty useless, however, I did watch the section "some sort of conclusion" where the guy on the left says that the LHY and PURA "audiophile switches" sounds worse than the baseline, based on the timing and rhythm, so there is that.
and you realize you are the one in a cult right? You speak out against technologies and science you know nothing about, jumping up and down screaming “but I heard it, I did, I promise!”
how about an actual test and dissecting of an "audiophile" switch?
|
@deep_333 cult is cult, you are just one step away from drinking cyanide when John Swenson tells you to.
|
@tonywinga
Interesting video. He shows data of how performance degrades under load.
This is insight you just got is below foundational knowledge for the topic of Networking.
And it doesn't really apply to switches that doesn't use a single CPU for all traffic handling under most circumstances. If you look at my Juniper EX220-C, the switch can handle 28 Gbit/s and 21 Mpps, which given the 14 ports equates to wire speed, i.e you can have every single port go 100% load and the switch can handle it. In contrast, the Switch X has a 10 Gbit/s backplane with 8 ports, so it can only handle 62.5% load on all interfaces before it dies. And these tests are with jumbo frames, not real life traffic, so it makes it most likely around 30% maximum load.
But that really won't matter if you use it for audio only. It does matter however if you use it as your primary switch and lots of other things plugged into it.
Again, this is so basic that it is ridicules, the concept of load affecting performance! But when you don't know anything about the topic, it is easy to be caught up details that really do not matter.
|
@nonoise
you are really funny and you should read what you wrote:
No need to spend $3K for the one sold at GTT Audio but you'll have to source your own linear power supply and it won't have any of the mods in it but you'll be way ahead of the game for pennies on the dollar.
The mods are in the linear power supply...just to make that clear. I never said they were in the Aruba and neither did Chris. He mods the power supply unit for the Aruba, as far as I know.
he literally says the ground is on the backplane,
That's exactly what I said. Why the need to correct me on that?
and you can see that what he is running his hand over is between the SFPs and the CPU, so he is says the ground is connected to the CPU. That is what he is saying. He likely doesn’t understand what he is saying however.
How you get that from what he said and did explains a lot. Your implications are faulty and intentionally misleading. He's clearly talking about the path from the SFPs to the chip and not the ground. A wave of his hand while mentioning the ground on the backplane and then pointing out the clear paths of the signal doesn't mean he's saying they're related. He talks quickly but I have no problem following what he's saying.
Anyone who's on the fence about this needs only to go back and watch the video and it will be clear what he's talking about.
All the best,
Nonoise
first you agree he says ground runs to SFP to the CPU, then you disagree. Either way, any one can watch video where he clearly says the ground runs from SFP to CPU, which it does not. Again, like so many other parts of the video, he has no idea what he is talking about. And that is the point, you think he is informing, but he just makes things up as he goes, since he has no clue. And that is why “audiophile” networking is just pure cult, there is no science or technology behind, just a bunch of people do not know the first thing about the topic being fooled by people who makes things up. End of story. Enjoy being swindled, and the cult membership card.
|
@cleeds
... how about an actual test and dissecting of an "audiophile" switch?
People have reported their results but you tend to dismiss them with a wave of the hand or a string of insults. Of course you could conduct your own test, couldn’t you?
But when you don’t know anything about the topic, it is easy to be caught up details that really do not matter.
Nasty insults are no substitute for reason.
dismiss what? Person A without knowledge says the switch makes it worse, Person B without knowledge says it makes it better, is that what you are talking about? Or how about 100% of people with knowledge who says it doesn’t do anything?
What is clear is that the videos referenced in this thread are so faulty and devoid of facts that it is laughable. Come on, does any one really believe anything from a guy that says “isolation gadget”, when he describes components he supposedly modifies? And it also a plain lie, easily verifiable.
|
