REL Quake or ACI Force for semi small room

Dear Matthew and friends: My advise is that you need two subs in your, btw in any audio system.

Please take a look: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27

The crossover point is extremely critical and my experience always told me that it has to be at around: 80Hz.

Regards and enjoy the music.

Raul.

Dear Sean: It is not only that two subs may load a room better than one, it is that two are necesary for the stereo effect remember that the music is not only " fundamental frecuencies " but harmonics too.

Btw, I'm not saying that the crossover be ALWAYS at 80Hz but this is a good point to start when you are filtering the signal to the main speakers. I agree with you that no one frecuency will work.

+++++ " That has not been my experience at all. I have always had to set about 5 Hz lower than the stated -3dB point of my speakers. " +++++

I respect your point of view but I'm not agree with it on this regards: we have to remember that we use subwoofers not only for a better quality/quantity low bass but for a better mid bass/mid range performance.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Mattehw: With all respect your dealer dos not know nothing about, sorry.

+++++ " it certainly makes sense to not drive the speakers as hard in the lower realms..." +++++

Certainly is. Please read carefully the link that I already give you ( the one that I post in this thread ). Read from SUDDENLY and below. It will be interesting for you.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Jim: Tks, now I can understand about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Matthew: The Rel subs are a very good ones but are inadequate for a proper stereo music/soun reproduction.

I think that the REL design is more adequate to HT applications than for a stereo music reproduction.

For a less distortion design the REL subs sum-up the left and right channel signals and always works in mono way, this single characteristic unfit for stereo aplications.

Again, please read carefully at: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sean: " unlimited budget ": all my post always are thinking in benefits/improvements for the proper stereo music reproduction, but you are right about the " budget " I almost not think about, sorry for that.

You are right too about " the best compromise at their price points ". But this is not the issue, the issue still is: PROPER STEREO MUSIC REPRODUCTION AT HOME.
There is almost none situation where the REL subs can meet this statement. The REL subs has a design that's is better for HT applications.

+++++ " I think you should tell us how you propose to improve on the REL for a budget.. " +++++

There are other subs alternatives to REL for proper stereo reproduction: Velodyne, Paradigm, M&K, HSU, Bag End, B&W, etc....

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sean: Others subs manufacturers give you the option to integrate their subs in a truly stereo fashion not like the REL ones that always give you a mono signal sound reproduction.

Like Eldartford post on the subs analog forum thread:
+++++ "I regard the "subwoofer" not as a separate speaker system, but as part of the main speaker system...the part that the manufacturer left out because of size and cost. " +++++

We need two subs for a proper stereo music sound reproduction not only one. Sure you can use only one but that can't say it is right. Maybe some people use only one sub and in this unortodox application the REL is fine, but I repeat: FOR A PROPER STEREO MUSIC REPRODUCTION AT HOME WE ALMOST ALWAYS NEED TWO SUBWOOFERS.

Please take your time and read carefully the link that I already post elsewhere in this thread. There you can read all the advantages, other than " more bass ", that we can have when we integrate subs in our stereo audio systems.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sean: My mistake is that I read the operation manual where they speak about the speakon connector and I never " seen " the stereo application. Sorry for that.

Mi issue is to leave free of low bass reproduction the woofer in the main speakers, in this way we can eliminated almost the most severe intermodulation distortion and heavy harmonic distortion that do a great degradation to the music reproduction.
In this way we can have many advantages: better quality/quantity low bass, clean mid bass, clean midrange/high frecuencies, etc....

Now, the start crossover point at 80Hz works very well and I can tell you that at this crossover point you can't detect the stereo subs.

About to summed the bass: remember that the bass is not only fundamental frecuencies but a lot of harmonics that we have to " hear " in stereo.

Tks for your time.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sean: You are right: it can't be achieved for under 1K. But the advantages of use of two subwoofers in an audio system is worthwhile the " financial " effort.

+++++ " The higher the frequency at which the subwoofer is crossed the more directional the subwoofer becomes.. " +++++

The issue here is to find the right crossover frecuency point in our room/system. When you find it you will be in " music heaven ".

I work very hard on this issue before my subs disappears. I find that this happen at around 80Hz. I corroborate this in other friend's systems . That's why I always speak " around 80Hz ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.