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referencing vs plug & play

This last couple of months more of you have been getting ahold of me, it's cool don't stop. I enjoy working on your systems and especially enjoy some listening together. Something though is coming up often and it's making me wonder if somewhere along the way someone has dropped the ball when it comes to comparing components. In talking with a few of you I've learned that a lot of you are dropping components into your systems and comparing without dialing your system into the new set of conditions. Back in the early days of referencing, before plug & play, when we made changes to a system we treated the system as if everything was starting from scratch. We knew that if making a component swap took place that we were going to need to make the rest of the audio chain suitable to accommodate the new signal path. "make a change anywhere in the flow and you've made a new flow"

When the plug & play audio clubs started popping up my friends looked at me as if these folks were off their rockers. I just figured they were doing something interesting but weren't really serious about club night, more than a chance to mingle. It's kind of the same thought as a trade show. You don't really take them serious, but it gives a chance to meet and greet. Saying this, I'm starting to think possibly I was wrong and plug & play has become the norm over actually referencing systems. My mind tells me this is nuts, right, but I'm hearing more and more that HEA folks are actually simply dropping components in mid chain and that's it. So I have to ask.

You do realize plug & play is different from referencing a system change don't you?

please be respectful to each other, thanks

Michael Green

128x128michaelgreenaudio

Showing 11 responses by geoffkait

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geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
What’s this, glubson - your new Beavis and Butthead routine?

Not to make a big rumpus out of it, but has your auto spell checker crashed? Remember, it’s not too late to go back to school. You’re cute when you get mad. On the positive side it’s heart warming to see Lizzie found a soul mate. 
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geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Lizzie fell for the patented glubson Tar Baby 👶 booby trap hook, line and sinker. Lol 😂 He does it so well but it’s such a narrow range.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
tjbhuler43 posts04-04-2019 8:14am
If tapping on a component or shelf hurts the sound don’t tap on them while the music is playing. So I disagree that tapping gives you much of a clue about what’s going on.

I never said tap the chasis while the system is playing and nothing about shelves (this is another story) thats what Geoff is thinking which is way off then what im saying.

>>>>I’m afraid you misinterpreted my comments. What I’m saying is people oft times overreact to the tapping test. The kinetic energy involved in tapping doesn’t exist in the room under normal conditions. I was partly joking about tapping the chassis whilst music is playing. Lighten up!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
My Tru Tone Duplex Covers are actually ceramic acoustic resonators. Now the thing with resonators is they must be free to resonate. If they’re constrained they aren’t effective. Like a tuning fork. So, when I recommend loosening the two screws holding the ceramic Duplex Cover to the wall it’s to allow the Duplex Cover to dissipate the wall vibratory energy more efficiently. You want the ceramic plate free to vibrate in order to reduce the effects of vibration on the sound. Contradictory, ain’t it?
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
glubson

In other threads, people talk how "audiophilia" is an aging hobby. How wouldn’t it be? If it would require such measures as working on your outlets or changing something for each record/CD/file played, who would have time? Young people rarely have time to play with that, unless their job is to sell whatever is needed for "referencing". This is a "hobby" for retirees. Nothing wrong with that, but it surely is time-consuming when done any other way but plug-and-play.

>>>>>Oh, no he didn’t!!

Youth is wasted on the young.” - Old audiophile axiom
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that mechanical stress and strain are not good for the sound. Without getting too far afield you can test this theory by using ordinary plastic spring loaded clothes hangers, attaching them to interconnects and hearing how it hurts the sound. One of the benefits of Cryogenically treating audio related things, e.g., CDs, LPs, cables, tonearms, even musical instruments such as trumpets, flutes, etc. is the reduction of mechanical stress and strain 🥵 Coincidence? You decide. So, you could say there’s a fine line between adjusting pressure on audio things like speakers and components, trying to reduce vibration, and producing mechanical stress and strain that hurts the sound - either directly or indirectly.

If tapping on a component or shelf hurts the sound don’t tap on them while the music is playing. So I disagree that tapping gives you much of a clue about what’s going on. For example, the ringing or clunking sound produced by tapping a large thick slab of granite with a small hammer 🔨 cannot be reproduced by acoustic waves or seismic vibrations in the room. They aren’t energetic enough. Thick granite slabs are not very vibratory. Obviously, it depends on the material, mass (inertia) and size especially thickness.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Unloosening the wall outlet screws is an excellent idea. In, fact I’ve been recommending loosening the screws on my company’s Tru Tone Duplex Oulets for more than 10 years. It’s not rocket science. 🚀 Remember my suggestion to loosen the bolts (or even better, REMOVE them!) on big honking transformers to reduce coupling the transformer vibration to the chassis? It’s the same idea. For a wall outlet loosening the screws helps isolate the outlet from wall vibration, gentle readers. Anyone not see where I’m going?
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I hate to judge before all the facts are in but referencing appears to be strikingly similar to what I’ve been preaching for a long time. And that is the use of a fool proof technique for determining speaker locations using the XLO Test CD or any Test CD with an Out of Phase Track (for such a purpose). But the trick - and the similarity to referencing - is this - after every new room treatment, every component change, every new power cord or cable, every new CD treatment, or any new tweak, the speakers should be checked for position again. Recalibration is another way to say it. Of course, break-in should be accounted for in the recalibration. Rome was not built in a day. These things take time. It’s not supposed to be plug and play, gentle readers.

”My voice should sound like it’s coming at you from all around the room. My voice should not be coming from any particular direction. The more non directional the sound is when the system is out of phase the more focused the sound will be when it’s in phase.”
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Ménage a trios?
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
It’s always a pleasure to witness a budding bromance right here on Audiogon. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
That might be a good sign. 🥳
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