Reference DACS: An overall perspective

Hi. Very nice thread Teajay! Wonderful input too! Branimir, can you give me your thoughts about this:

I listened to a P-03 / D-03 / G-0s stereo setup. The combination of using this external masterclock together with ES-LINK (1 AES per channel) between P-03 and D-03 was far more superior IMO than likewise using i-LINK (firewire). Unfortunately bad thing is that i-LINK is the only option when using multiple D-03s for a multichannel setup.

I was not able to hear yet a P-01 / D-01 / G-0s setup, simply because I don’t know where to find them in Western Europe. You classify these products as the utmost achievable as front end. Each channel is indeed connected with ES-LINK, which I experienced as the best. Again unfortunately, their flagship 01-series is not able to handle DSD signals as the newer 03-series can do. I know this is a wonderful RBCD thread, but talking so much about Esoteric I would give it a short try and high quality multichannel sound (SACD) is important to me (as is RBCD).

You wrote 10-23-06 “my guess is that Esoteric will release updated version of flagship D-01/P-01 (D-01 D2/P-01 D2???) pretty soon as well with further in-depth involvement with dual DACs (PCM1704/AD1955)”. You also wrote about the character differences of the 03- and 01-series. Are they becoming more alike after that D2-upgrade? If so, what would be the reason (i-LINK?!) why someone would pay an almost double price for the 01-series compared to the likewise 03-series?

Other question, what is changed with “4th generation VRDS NEO”?

Finally… I wish Esoteric 01/03-series had a BLACK-option too!… They would fit better with the other components and don’t reflect light in a MC-audio/HT-video environment.

Furthermore I can say that I’m building (May-07) a new setup around VTL Siegfried (KT88) with VTL TL7.5mkII feeding W/A Alexandria. No cables yet, but I’m interested in Jorma Design’s “Prime” XLR+SP cables. What type of transport/dac do you -and/or other readers- see as best match with this gear?

I believe in the existence of brand-synergy between amp/preamp, transport/dacs, IC/SP-cables and speakers of course when using different types together.

For digital gear my favorites so far are Esoteric, which IMO sounded (and is build) better than EMM Labs, but at a higher price too. Not yet available but in 2007 to be expected dCS MC-gear (with right cables they can deliver real honest and involving music). Beautiful Weiss Medea+Jason (incl it’s upsampler 24/192), but the latter ones are not MC. And finally Theta’s soon to be expected Generation VIII (used as dac only, separate preamp!) connected with their Compli via MegaLinque, a technique to transfer DSD-signals direct to the Gen8. The CasablancaIII would only be a controller and DD/DTS-decoder than with only dig-IN plus dig-OUT, no internal dacs, and smooth integration of HT in a MC-audio setup. But best sound first, than HT, therefor my interest in Esoteric. Look forward to your opinion!

Regards, René

Thanks Branimir. In reply to your answers:

“D-03/P-03/G-0s is fine match with your system.”… Why do you suggest this one instead of 01-series? Because of the W/A speakers or the VTL tube amplification? My set is IMO already a mix of #1 and #2 sound, kind of counter-balance. Or do you say this for the price difference between these series, which is huge for MC? Technically both can do MC, 01-series via max 6ch ES-LINK and 03-series via chained i-LINK (firewire).

“P-03Universal(when it become available in EU)”… I compared in July-06 the very first P-03UNI in EU with the P-03. To be honest at that moment I could not hear any difference between them. Maybe it was because of the (for me and not mine) difficult MBL Radialstrahler 101E. Anyway, maybe 01/03-series for best CD/SACD and for coming HDDVD/BR movie formats I rather buy such separate transport if possible from the same brand as the a/v-processor as long as I could integrate it in the MC-dac chain… time will tell.

“Jorma Prime? Excellent cables IMHO”… I’m surprised, you actually know this cable?! As far as I know you’re one of the very few. Great! The distributor over here ordered a IC/SP set, so we are able to listen to it in several weeks. With what gear did you hear them and what was your impression?

Metralla, thanks for your involvement. I was aware of the content behind both links. But that is almost everything you can find on the internet. JormaDesign Prime seems already a true reference in the Asian area.

Unfortunately I'm only able to eat their food, not read their language, so I don't know what they write on the many internet pages I see when I google around.

Osgorth & Branimir, JormaDesign Prime is what I will listen at within 1 or 2 months as soon as my contact over here (W-Europe) receive his ordered cable set. He is also the distributor of my VTLs and we are quite close (he better be, ha ha).

Anyway I know that making such a huge system cable choice is a delicate job and I will take my time for that (saving coins in the mean time). So, it is not a matter now of questions in general (I really don’t what to hear al kind of ‘intellectual’ stories), I actually want to decide on what I experience with my ears.

Nevertheless, with the gear I have I’m not afraid to use sensitive cables that will show all what is in the system… I hope they do just that! If it will be the J/D Prime, Nordost Valhalla, Stealth topline, a.s.o., time will tell.

I only don’t like the magic box cables from Transparent or MIT. I ones exchanged an expensive Transparent Ref XL for someone’s self made but excellent sounding speakercable. But to be honest, other people I know really rave about the new MIT Oracle v1.1 MA and likewise also J/D uses a Bybee ‘black box’ in their cable. Conclusion for now? I'm open for everything as long as I can increase soundwise the quality level of the whole.

Branimir, this morning I received at my surprise an important email from Esoteric Tokyo that a combo from P-01 with D-03s connected via ES-LINK is indeed possible. Great news!!!

All the benefits of the higher quality level -or as you wish my preferred sound- with ES-LINK compared to the alternative i-LINK (firewire). And that for all 6 channels!

Herewith also best HDDVD or BR 24/192 playback possible!

Other major benefit is that the D-03 (and not the D-01) can handle SACD signals not converted from DSD to PCM. But the otherway around is possible, PCM can be up-converted to DSD. And that for all 6 channels!

So, I am more than interested in P-01 / 3x D-03 / G-0s… and sure, it will cost me 6 extra AES cables (ES-LINK) but I achieve the utmost this way! Maybe too in the #1-#2 mixer … Anyway, me happy! :-)

Hi Branimir, I'm curious about your experience with this X-01 D2 and even more how -in your opinion- this might translate to posible future dual dac usage in the D-03 (PCM+DSD) or D-01 (DSD only). Imagine the D-01 with superb PCM performance and than via dual dac also capable for native-DSD conversion. You're the man who is able to compare several Esoteric types. Please let us know!

Kind regards, Rene

Hi,
I have not heard the dCS Pro stuff, but I know someone who is familiar with it and the 384kHz "DXD" you refer to is very impresive he said and betters the existing level of performance.

Good news, dCS will implement that DXD in it's new products. Bad news (as far as I understood it), you are not able to play DSD signals via this Pro gear! The Pro gear get the SACD/DSD signals from recording harddisk. For audiophile usage the connection between a DSD transport and DSD dac must be Sony's firewire, or likewise+encrypted for a brand own's gear only, like Esoteric does with their ES-Link (AES/EBU but not usefull with other brands). Hope this helps.

Look forward to dCS' new Scarlatti line (pictures+names on the internet from last nov-06). Transport with VRDS-NEO. Will it have the above mentioned DXD? A new masterclock? Same ring-dac as Elgar Plus, or other new developments incorporated? And... how does it sound?!

Comparing this Scarlatti line to Esoteric 01/03 series seems most in line. For sure Esoteric did an excellent job being in the fore front, in all ways, build quality, sonics of cours, but also 'details' like all the DSP facilities on board of the P-01 and P-03 (sub on/off, spreading low freq over selective speakers, +/-dB/ch, delay/ch, test tones).

Did anyone listened/compared the X-01 D2 ?! I'm eager to hear your experiences with the dual dacs.

Regards, Rene-L

Hi Dev, just curious... what brand/type amps and speakers is your friend using together with his dCS+VTL7.5 ?