uberwaltz,
If you want good, accurate bass that's able to go as deep as the music demands without sacrificing mid-range and treble performance, I'd suggest either the Oppo PM-3 or Sony MDR-Z7.
The Oppo use planar magnetic drivers while the Sony use exceptionally large conventional drivers. Both are closed back, very comfortable and very good but slightly more than your $400 budget.
Tim |
uberwaltz, freediver has a good suggestion with the HiFiman He400i's. Very nice planar magnetic headphones. If you want to go with a planar magnetic, there are also some from Monoprice that are less expensive headphones that are very similar to and may even be made by HiFiman. They look very similar and are $200 new, here's a video review of the Monoprice M560's: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgAf-_aGR5M&list=PLsm0YcQ-5gn0jpVfKNZuimVUB7OmbLpEy&index=14 This site, Zreviews on You Tube has a lot of headphone reviews, including the He400i's, Oppo PM-3's, Sony Z7 and many others. Freedriver is spot on; the bass is very good but doesn't go really deep. These really shine in the mid-range and treble, though. Probably a good site for your search. Please post back on what you decide. Thanks, Tim |
uberwaltz, There are also some good headphone deals on Massdrop, here’s the link: www.massdrop.com Massdrop works with many very good headphone manufacturers to offer ’special Massdrop versions’ of their headphones at bargain prices contingent on Massdrop acquiring a predetermined minimum number of customer orders. Once met, the manufacturer builds the headphones and the orders are fulfilled. These headphones are assigned a unique Massdrop model number but are typically very similar in performance level, promo model# and looks to one of their regular models. It’s not difficult to identify which specific regular model they’re basing the promotional Massdrop model on. The reality is you’ll get a very good headphone at a bargain price, Tim |
Hi uberwaltz, I'd be very interested in Hegel's rationale for not including a high quality and convenient method of connecting headphones to their top of the line $5,000 integrated amp while the vast majority of their competitors do so, often at a fraction of the Hegel H300's price. WTF? It's commonly known that extreme cold slows down cognitive functioning. I apparently incorrectly assumed the execs at this Norwegian company would be making these critical decisions indoors with the heat on. Did you know it had no headphone accomodations when you bought it? On an integrated amp, that would be a deal breaker for me and likely many others. If you don't want to sell your H300 and buy a more headphone friendly integrated, the only solution I'm aware of is buying an external headphone amp/dac with a digital input, se or xlr analog outputs and a headphone jack. The procedure for hooking up an external dac is detailed in your H300 owners manual. It basically calls for connecting the H300's digital output to the external amp/dac in what Hegel calls a DAC-loop. I learned of this on the linked thread here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-a-dacTim |
Hi uberwaltz,
I understand you incorrectly assumed the pre-outs would allow for connecting headphones but, since the pre-outs don’t function as you thought, connecting headphones using the pre-outs is not an option.
My proposed solution, however, is centered on using your Hegel’s digital output rather than the pre-outs. For this to work you need to have and do the following:
1. You need to use an external dac or dac/amp combo that has a digital input and l+r xlr outputs. These are ’musts’ and not all external dacs and dac/amp combos have a digital input and l+r xlr outputs.
2. You will need a digital coax (S/PDIF) cable (NOT USB - coax is the H300’s only digital output connection), and a set of XLR cables to do this according to the H300’s directions.
3. Connect the digital output on the H300 to the dac’s digital input using a digital coax (S/PDIF) cable.
4. Connect the dac’s l+r xlr outputs to the H300’s l+r xlr inputs using a pair of xlr cables. This completes the DAC-Loop the H300 instructions describe (out of the H300 via its digital output and the converted digital to analog signals back into the H300 via its l+r xlr inputs.)
Quote below is from your H300 manual:
"The DAC-Loop is activated/deactivated by holding the DAC+ button of the RC8 while pressing the IN+ button. A dot after the last digit of the displayed source input will indicate that DAC-Loop is activated. When selecting a digital source input with DAC-Loop activated, the display will read BAL for a short time. This indicates that both the selected digital input and the balanced input are active."
Of course, my proposed solution above will bypass the H300’s internal dac. I would expect the H300’s internal dac to be of high quality and, therefore, would expect the cost of an external dac (with a digital input and l+r xlr outputs) that matches or exceeds the performance of the H300’s internal dac to be somewhat expensive.
Unfortunately, this is the best solution I can think of thus far for your situation.
Hope this helped a bit,
Tim |
Hi chrshani37,
Ah, okay. I somehow missed reading he uses a turntable. I was going to ask uberwaltz what sources he was using.
I'm amazed a hi-end manufacturer like Hegel makes its customers jump through hoops just to listen to headphones with their products; I thought they'd have a premium headphone amp built into their expensive integrated amps that's easily accessible via a front plate headphone jack. Weird, they decide to incorporate a good but costly dac in the H300 but cut corners by omitting a means to listen via headphones.
Apparently, my proposed solution won't allow uberwaltz to listen to his turntable via headphones since the H300 cannot convert the analog turntable signals to digital signals outputted through its coax (S/PDIF).
Because of this, I think your suggestion of uberwaltz selling his H300 and buying a H160 is a good one. He'll be able to connect all his sources directly to it and listen via his headphones to all of them by simply inserting his headphones plug into, are you ready for this?, a headphone jack right on the front of the H160's front panel.
Man, it sure must be nice to be able to afford an integrated amp that allows such spectacular technology to be accessed so conveniently. I can only hope this leading edge technology will trickle down to an affordable product in my lifetime.
Enjoy,
Tim
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Hi uberwaltz,
As long as you like the sound of your system with the H300 and your speakers don't need more than 150 watts to perform their best, swapping for the H160 seems to be your best solution.
You're likely to have a very similar system sound through your speakers while gaining the ability to conveniently listen through your headphones when you wish.
The H160 is the first Hegel integrated amp to have a headphone jack. It's not actually a separate and discrete headphone amp, but a voltage divider appended to the H160's output section. The circuitry around this divider is very low noise and, according to all the reviews I've read (Stereophile and Novo Press), the headphone section is very good. I still don't understand why Hegel didn't include something similar on your H300.
Good luck,
Tim
i |
" I still could have my h300 internally modified to convert the existing pre out to a full line out independant of music through the speakers."
Hi uberwaltz,
I didn't know this was even an option and you were considering it. If it's not cost prohibitive and there's no real downside, this also seems like a good solution to me. But you seem to prefer an 'all-in-one' solution more than having a separate headphone dac/amp.
I understand your reluctance to add a dac and amp or a dac/amp combo to your system because I recently had to make a similar decision with my system. I decided to add a separate dac and class A headphone amp to my system located right next to my listening position.
It's just a small JDS Labs dac into a small Aune x7s small pure class A amp putting out a maximum of 2 watts but I'm really enjoying everything I listen to through them with a pair of Sony Z-7 headphones. Class A sounds extremely good in my opinion. If you're interested, you could do something similar with just a good class A headphone amp (no dac required) and the very good Hifiman 400i headphones, once a mod is performed to your H300 pre outs.
I think the 400i's would sound exceptionally good utilizing the H300's internal dac outputted through true pre outs to a good powerful external pure class A headphone amp.
Hopefully, auditioning an H160 in your system will help you decide which option you prefer.
Best wishes,
Tim |
" The h160 may end up being the most sensible option as modifying the h300 might seriously deter potential future owners.
Still also seems a darn shame to have that doorstop of a BAT amp sitting idle too.
Maybe I just buy more speakers and make 3 or 4 systems!"
Hi uberwaltz,
I would think that modifying your H300’s pre outs so they function as true pre outs would only increase its value since others would likely realize the value of this mod just as you have.
Your Bat-VK600SE is an expensive, well respected solid state amp that you’d likely be able to sell for a significant price if it’s in good condition. Why not sell it to finance the H300 mod and a good headphone amp? You’d also be freeing a good amp from a doomed fate of collecting dust in a closet to do what it was made to do: drive high quality speakers with high quality amplification.
I would suggest the following course of action:
1. If you like the performance of the H160 in your system once you audition it, buy one and sell your Hegel H300 and Bat-VK600SE.
2. If you like the performance of the H300 more than the H160 in your system, have the mod done to your H300’s pre outs, buy a good external headphone amp of your choice and sell your Bat-VK600SE.
3. Avoid buying more speakers and making 3 or 4 additional systems.
Scenario #3 only proliferates the number of your home systems in which you are unable to have a good and convenient method of listening to headphones in.
Both scenario #1 and #2 ensures you have both a good amp that you like driving your speakers and a good amp. either internal with the H160 or external with the H300, that you like driving your somewhat inefficient Hifiman 400i headphones.
I hope my suggestions helped you a bit,
Tim
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Hi uberwaltz,
Sounds good.
Please post back with your impressions and decision.
Thanks,
Tim |
