Thanks for all the thoughts so far. It sounds like getting into the crawlspace is going to be the most effective solution for reducing vibration from the footfalls.
It also sounds like the wall-mount option would be a good bet...although the quick search i did didn't turn up anything that seemed big enough for an original Aries TT. The walls around here don't seem the best...closing the front door firmly seems to cause things to shake. I wonder if it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. after all, if i'm listening to music, i'm sitting down & not causing vibrations from footfalls.
Re: Damping the turntable's chassis...
I don't think this is what I was hoping for. Basically, I'd just like to give it a rigid support such that no vibrations are coming up from below the chassis. I don't wnat to "weigh down" the chassis or any such thing. Would a Bright Start Big Rock do that? I'm under the impression that it just limits vibration.
Thanks!
I'm also looking into/learning about the SRA products, but what I'm hearing so far is that dealing with the space under the floor is the biggest area for improvement, and everything else will not make much of a difference until that is taken care of.
For reference, my speakers are on heavy stands (w/ spikes), and it doesn't seem like they're really getting the vibration from the floor...so i wonder if part of this is just that the rack does not weight enough and the spikes are not penetrating the carpet/pad.
Thank you all! I appreciate your thoughts. |
thanks for the post. i didn't see anything at "analogdept.com".
i haven't made any progress yet, as i have been on-the-road, and i haven't felt like unpacking all of the boxes & such that are blocking access to the crawlspace. (i had to unpack and repack them so many times while getting the floor insulation done, and the prospect of doing it once more hasn't been appealing.)
i had a conversation earlier today, and someone mentioned the idea of measure the distance of the rack to the wall, then cutting two 2x4s to that length +1/4". that would brace the race to the wall and dramatically reduce lateral displacement of the rack.
that seems quite logical -- but it might not affect things is the floor is moving vertically.
as i contemplate this, i start to thing about how i am generally not moving around when listening to a record, thus there are no footfall issues (and no "major"/visible vibration). it's logical that there are still smaller vibrations which could affect the music, but i wonder if these could be treated by mass-loading the rack a bit, and using some air suspension.
i will investigate the wall-mount further to see if there is something in the size i need.
thanks! |
Just wanted to post an update. I have decided on a wall-mount solution for the turntable, as i believe that all other solutions are attempts to fix the vibration problem with results that may or may not pan out.
What I mean is that the floor is clearly highly compliant/springy -- so much so that the top of the rack visibly shakes with footfalls -- and is moving vertically as well as horizontally. Bracing the floor from below would definitely help, as would mass-loading the rack and changing the shelving.
However, as good as those solutions may be, I don't think they'll eliminate as much vibration in one fell swoop as doing a wall-mount -- and there could be more time and/or expense involved.
I'm going to see what happens with the wall mount. I have no doubt that all the solutions regarding treating the floor and rack would help with the rest of my system, but I think they're lower priority than dealing with the most sensitive source.
I hope to be in a better position to evaluate my turntable's true performance, as well as that of the rest of the system as soon as the wall mount is in place.
Thank you! |
Installed the wall-mounted shelf today and it made a huuuuuge difference!
The impact it has was not at all subtle.
I need to preface this next statement by saying that I often do not hear the effect of some "upgrades" that folks rave about. (I'm not saying the improvement isn't there, but many times I just don't experience it.) I'm not a detail/soundstage freak, but did hear a couple things on records on familiar records that I'd never heard before.
This got me more of an improvement than I had hoped. I think I still need to address some of the floor issues (particularly bracing from below), but it's not as serious a concern with the rest of my system as it was with the source.
I was listening to a live recording of Spanish guitar and could hear some "hand slaps" against the body of the guitar that I'd not noticed before. I think previously they were muddled and lost in the vibration of the source.
Thanks for the advice. As mentioned above, I will still plan to sue it as I make improvments. I'm just glad the main issue is taken care of. Having the TT on a compliant floor really sucked all the life out of the system. |
D_v:
I purchased a finite elemente Pagode Signature wall shelf. They are pricey (not as pricey as the next higher model in the line-up), but it was so worth it.
To your point, any wall-mounted shelf will provide a solid connection with the wall...but what if the wall vibrates? Well, this seies of shelves take measures to reduce the vibration transmitted to the shelf from the wall. Further, there is really a shelf that sits atop the "frame" (which then connects to the wall. The shelf is further isolated from the frame.
The next level up takes this even further. It's double the cost and I'm sure it's better...but the "Signature" model is pretty stellar.
Just something worth investing. Also, finite elemente include a mortar kit to shore up mounts into brick and concrete walls. Wow. |
Thanks again, all, for your replies.
Even though the TT is now on the wall, I realized that I should still support the floor from underneath.
I like the automotive scissor jack route, atop a concrete block (and potentially below a 2'x2" or 4'x4").
The area I'm trying to support is 13'W x 10'D, with joists running from front to back and spaced 16" apart.
I'm thinking that instead of just supporting the equipment/rack and area under the 2 speakers, maybe I should just brace the whole floor.
Any thoughts on how many jacks I should use in that space?
How much is enough to barely get by (I'm guessing area under the rack + 2 speakers)? How much is enough to "do it right"?
Also, if I go the 2'x2" (or 4'x4") route, would you recommend 2 (or 4) jacks supporting each board?
Thanks so much for your thoughts. |
Thanks, Valve & Vinyl.
Dumb question: Does "blocking" refer to connecting joists with shorter pieces of wood (16" apart around here)?
The blocking could be hard to accomplish given that I just installed insulation between all joists.
I also may have screwed up because I didn't see your post before hitting the hardware store today.
I purchased a 4"x4"x8' and 2 adjustable floor joist jacks (the local hardware store only had 2) such that they are near the minimum of their range. I positioned the 4x4 so that it was perpendicular to the joists (it's supporting 6 joists). I used the jacks under the 4x4. I figured I would see how well it worked and then add more if necessary (I would need possibly 2 4x4x4' & 1 more 4x4x8' to cover it, given the pipe situation).
Does the method you suggested (hole + patio stone + pier) replace what I did above? It sounds like it does...and it sounds like a more elegant solution.
Should I not add the 2-3 additional 4x4's w/ jacks? The jacks (36") are like $30 a pop.
Thank you!!! |
Thanks again, V&V.
I ake your point about the joist/jack method being subject to the mercy of nature. That said, the crawlspace should be a more constant temperature than a place that receives a mix of sun and shade.
I'd think that any solution in the crawlspace would be subject to the same mercy of nature -- even the pier solution you proposed -- althoguh perhaps to a lesser degree.
I will see how feasible blocking is for me, given the work I did on the insulation.
If I read your response correctly, you think the beam idea that I've tried with adjustable jacks (2/beam) as columns is OK. I know it does not fully replace the blocking, but it sounds like it is an improvement, albeit one that may need periodic adjustment.
I added one such header/horizontal beam, and based on the location of equipment in the room and the space/pipes below, I feel like I need to add at least two shorter beams. I could not emply one to span the width of the space due to crawlspace constraints.
Since the listening area is one section of a larger room, do you think it's wise/appropriate/or unnecessary to support the rest of the room (i.e., no equipment will be located in this area)? The listening area is already divided from the rest of the room by a header.
Thank you so much! I am learning quite a bit and feel like I'm almost all the way there in terms of making an informed decision about the solution. |
Cool...that is an excellent way of thinking about it. It makes me step back and realize that this is quite an improvement, already.
I do plan to put 1 or 2 shorter (4x4x4') supports directly under the rack and other speaker.
Guess I'll focus on the space under the listening area and not worry about the adjoining space (separated by a header).
Thanks so much! I will report back with my experience.
Everyone has been very helpful; your suggestions have been taken to heart. |
