This is a seriously disappointing thread. Lots of great and likely
somewhat useless wiring suggestions. If you find your speakers "bright",
wire is not where you start making changes .... ask why do your
speakers sound bright?
- Are you running tube gear or
solid-state? If tube gear, the damping factor may be low in the base,
especially around 100Hz where these speakers dip to 2 ohms. That could
be rolling off the bass making you think the highs are bright.
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More likely is you have an inadequately treated your room for these
speakers. Room response makes a speaker bright, not the speaker on its
own. Some additional absorption, a carpet, ceiling diffuser/absorber,
etc. may be ideal and give you better overall imaging.
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If those expensive wires are causing your amp to be unstable, then the low cost copper wires will be better. You may be confusing "detail" for artificial high frequencies. Most claims about high end wires is marketing, but highly capacitive wires can make amplifiers unstable.
If it is bass de-emphasis, that is harder to address without an amplifier change or tone controls.
Sounds like your room is well designed, but a wide dispersion speaker can seem bright where a narrow one does not. Frequency response is on axis but we hear room response.
The amp instability can be measured in minutes with an oscilloscope and a signal generator. The bass de-emphasis can be detected by swapping out for a good high current amp, and a room response issue with a measurement microphone and something like REW. Not sure who you know who can help, but may be a better path than buy and try with unpredictable results. |
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Flat response is a goal unless you like colored music. |
Those book smart guys are why audio is better today then it has ever been. Those book smart guys (that also often play instruments) do blind tests to show that people do like a flat response.
The people who refuse to pick up a book ... They keep making the same old mistakes. |
And your reasoning for 7awg? ... any idea the resistance of a voice coil? How about the variation from one speaker to another? Does length of the run come into play at all?
This is hand waving with little to no justification leading others astray.
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What up with all these easily spooked golden ears. Easily spotted because anytime anyone suggests that they are biased by their eyes, they get all antsy and rush to their keyboards. It’s like they can’t figure out how to have a different forum account and sell/but account.
They also like to use the term pseudo science even though they would not know science even if it hit them with a rotting fish. |
Thyname spout all you like, but actual tests by real experts like Toole and others show that flat response is the right one. The BBC dip is to compensate for typical room effects to get flat room response.
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So pretty much you are "arguing" from a point of complete ignorance w.r.t. electronic circuits. Got it. Carry on.
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So pretty much you are ignoring that voice coil resistance and impedance is part of the circuit ....right, gotcha. So basically that 7awg number is made up.
And no, I don't wonder why components like that exist. They exist because people will buy them. Many will even convince themselves and others that a very small different in resistance is critical compared to large DC resistance and/or the large output impedance of the tube amplifiers they reference in the marketing blurb.
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How "humble" of you .... advice without anything to back it up, is worth .... On one side I know that most of you are to far out in the hifi-jungle to
ever understand what you are into, but incase someone should be humble
enough to try out my advices I`ll give them here for a while, some moore
weeks mybe before I`ll give you up. |
Stereo5, w.r.t. flat response: This is one of the major goals of room acoustics ... to achieve a flat frequency response. Audiophile eschew tone controls, but then place speakers in a somewhat or poorly treated room ... and that room is tone control, complete with phase (almost like an electronic one).
Issues with fidelity aside, most people do prefer the results of the amplitude correction applied by AV processors and receivers. Why? ... because it achieves a somewhat flat response. Even better is to accomplish it at the speaker and with room tuning (while correcting other maladies).
Sorry to derail a bit ruraltraumsurgeon. It sounds like you are on the right path, but I would caution you not to confuse high frequency emphasis from amplifier stability with "detail". There are better controlled ways of emphasizing high frequencies if that is what you prefer. Amplifier instability would not be my preferred method.
Oldhvymec: I am not offended Oldhvymec, but I also don't agree with unfairlane either with his suggestions, his conclusions, or his statement that somehow he has the "truth" and we should be blessed to have that truth shared with us. The problem with that "truth" is it is appears based on a limited experience set, with conclusions made based on correlation, and not necessarily causation. People often say "well I figured this out from 25 years in the hobby" and that is great. Would it come as as shock to know that people who design this equipment will often test more variation in a week or month that a hobbyist, even an active one, over their whole life? Their knowledge set also allows them to better determine causation as well, not simply correlation.
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Filters, electronics, speakers, etc. ... over 30. You?
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Guessing you have little to none in a professional capacity. We are talking basic circuitry here ...
Follow the crowd? No, follow how things actually work, not how you wished they did. |
Before trying to argue a point for which your understanding is poor, you may want some course-work in basic circuits. Let’s start with a simple exercise, an amplifier connected up to a driver with no cross-over. W.R.T. operation, it does not matter where you put the resistance in the voice-coil in that circuit, it will all behave the same .... shhh ... don’t tell anyone, but the same is true of the resistance of the output of a tube amplifier as well. The resistance in the voice-coil from a "speaker" standpoint is parasitic. It has no function in moving air, though it is critical w.r.t. proper operation of the crossover.
There is nothing "misleading" about the voice-coil resistance, though many, as you have shown, may mislead themselves into thinking it does not matter. It does. When you are completing your "education", you may want to look into "equivalent circuits" specifically one for a typical speaker driver. We use those for cross-over design. While you are there, you may want to look into how heating up the voice coil changes the parameters, especially the resistance, just as a side learning project. Somewhere along the way, hopefully, you will discover that there comes a point where reducing speaker cable resistance is pointless. I don’t put much faith in that happening, but anything is possible. Maybe you will even find out why there is a rule of thumb on dampening factor and why at some point, increasing it, has little to no benefit (but big numbers look cool on a marketing sheet).
Bus-Bars are to ensure equal loading across all capacitors, rarely for much else other than, as stated, for convenience and it looks impressive, at least where audio is concerned.
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I have tried many things but what you just wrote is based in fantasy not reality. Oh well. Have a good Christmas. |
The change in resistance of the cable will be minimal from the ones you have described so that punch is not from improved current flow which will be minimal to 0.
The brightness/detail (and harshness) was likely an unstable amp with your Nordost that went away with cheap cable if I remember. The "Transparent" has a few dollars (or pennies) of parts to address instability in wide bandwidth amplifiers.
That detail was just high frequency emphasis ... It was not real. That midrange - upper base punch is because you are now hearing it properly without it being masked by high frequency "hash". |
Neither your lack of reading comprehension, nor your laziness to actually read my posts in this thread, nor your lack of understanding of amplifier/speaker and cable interaction in limited cases justifies your childish and ignorant post. It says much more about you, than it does about it. So it’s either the OP is hallucinating, or wasting money on cables that cost pennies in parts. That’s the gist of what you are saying, right?
Do you have anything to say to help the OP on this? Other than just denouncing cables as snake oil. What is the purpose of your participation in this thread? |
If you are putting your cables into any sort of connector that is not spring loaded then you should never tin the ends. Solder flows under pressure and as soon as you tighten it, it starts to loosen. |
Tell me what the resistance change will be and how that relates to the ops speaker impedance in the mids to upper base. unfairlane102 posts12-27-2019 6:57pm" The change in resistance of the cable will be minimal from the ones you have described so that punch is not from improved current flow which will be minimal to 0."
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Try something you actually understand |
What "interference" in stranded wires? Is it possible your tests were flawed and hence your conclusions not accurate? .... or your tests were very specific to the wires, speakers, etc you were using at the time?
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Leaded solder is even softer than lead-free, so it flows even more. With speaker wire, it just means your screw contact will loosen up and your contact resistance goes up. The average power is normally low, so no biggie. When people do this with AC wires, it can lead to arcing and fires.
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I watched the video ... the one where he does not tin the stranded copper wire. Tinning the stranded copper wire is a bad idea. It will loosen. Even if you tighten it again, it will loosen. The solder flows very slowly under pressure, even with a lot of pressure. It is best just not to tin the ends where the screws are coming down .... so yes, my suggestion how to make it better = Follow the instructions in the video where they do not tin the wires. Ignore advice to tin wires that will be compressed with screws. I understand you said you prefer to solder them in place, but you keep trying to justify tinning the ends when they are screwed down. w.r.t. AC, way back early in my career I did a short stints in industrial electronics and got to see the end results a few times of someone tinning the ends of wires, right up to melted terminal blocks. This is a well known issue, and unfortunately you can find a thousand threads on the web discussing it and a thousand wrong recommendations. In any environment with properly trained staff (not to mention say a UL inspection) it will never be accepted. https://cdn.thomasnet.com/ccp/00142951/263810.pdfhttps://www.eptac.com/ask/when-to-tin-and-not-tin-wires/ |
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