Allegro is spot on!!!! If you have the room, the Apogee Scintilla is Piano and medieval magic on a large scale. Next thing needed is either for sale. |
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Khrys, I beg to differ. Piano resonates throughout it's body with every stroke in subtle low frequencies. When a low note is pounded, the piano cavity is exited all the more. The Apogee can translate these very low frequencies with authority. The Scintilla, Duetta, and Diva all straight line to 20 db. The Scintilla ribbon is every bit as fast as the Quad diaphragm, only the Scintilla can go very loud. |
Khrys, you obviously do not understand. ;-) |
We are talking speakers, Eldartford, not pianos. Your player piano is a piano. I have a piano too. Pianos sound different from one to another. I just might not find your piano agreeable. This conversation should be moved to a musical instrument site, don't you think? |
That reminds me, of the conductor at the Smithsonian reporting his getting a kick out of fooling the audience by switching between a real Mozart piano and a playback through Apogee Divas. There is a pic on the web showing the Divas flanking Mozart's piano at the Smith. |
Yes, and I will torment you, until you relent, and get one for yourself. ;-) |
I have a neighbor with Prodigies. Guess who's speakers he is "officially jealous" of? |
Khrs,
You must have not tried many amps on your Duettas. I used a mere 150 watt amp on those "inefficient" speakers to very good results. Good enough to have Martin Logan owner and a Quad owner enjoy them.
Only the Scintilla really fits the bill as grossly inefficient. Even so, when the Scintilla is matched with a can do amp, there are few full range speaker contenders.
That precludes the Quad - not full range.
My Scintilla does straight line down to 20db, and trails off to beyond. The mids and highs are as delicately articulated as any, while surpassing nearly all. |
I tried to get back to my last post to amend it - too late. Now I'll have to take the heat from Quad owners.
In my defense, I first want to confess the Quad is one of the greatest speakers ever.
The thing that I love about the Scintilla is it equals the Quad in transparency and immediacy, but surpasses the Quad in extension. Since musical instruments emit a kaleidescope of frequencies, having the lows and the highs fully covered assist greatly in presenting a convincing picture of a musical event.
On repro music and the real thing: That depends on how far the listener might be from the real thing. A lot of frequencies are absorbed, and dulled over a distance. There is no doubt, in my mind, a Grand, in the living room, will never be equaled by any playback system.
In the case of a piano concert, from a distance, IMO there are systems that can fool the most musical savvy. At least, I have been fooled.
My first experience with the Scintilla in '85 completely fooled me into thinking I was indeed listening to a real piano - in an adjacent studio.
I had never seen the likes of the Scintilla. I took them for room dividers. They were being fed by a Goldmund table and Koetzu cartridge, Pre amp and amp unknown.
I have a good sense what a real piano wounds like. We have a great heavy old turn of the century Piano upright. My wife plays beautifully, and I had attended numerous concerts by that time.
Walking into that listening room, the piano was completely convincing. It sounded receded, some distance away, but real just the same. There was no one in the room to tell me otherwise. Not until I poked my head through an open doorway, where the piano diminished, did I understand the joke was on me. I promised my self I would own those speakers that sound like a real piano - as soon as I could afford the beasts to drive them.
We live in a golden age of audio, with new digital formats coming out all the time. Radically new amp concepts are appearing, like the powerful Butler OTL, and the Acoustic Reality ICE powered amps. Inexpensive digital front ends are closing the sound quality gap with high end (really!).
I sold the beasts I was first driving my Scintillas with, and now use the Acoustic Reality eAR 2 amp to power the Scintilla. No longer am I peering through a door to the real piano, I am now in row E.
I had a Quad owner over the other day. I played a little Brickman "Autumn" music for him. He sat there with his eyes closed for a long while. Then he looked my way, and asked, "Wouldn't you agree you have recaptured the real thing, like you heard years ago?"
Yes, I think I have. |
Khrys, for your information:
Scintilla Review HiFi News:
"... the response can be classed as very smooth. The
upper section can be seen to be mildly resonant at 50Hz, the lower more dominant at 30Hz. As the curve shows, the output had not fallen below the median line by 20Hz, virtually subwoofer performance."
I rest my case.
Also this: the Scintilla is a unique speaker, even among the Apogee line. The mid ribbon and the tweeters are feather weight naked currugated aluminum ribbons. For each speaker, there are five feet of mid ribbon, and twenty feet of tweeter ribbon. The tweeter ribbons mechanically bleed off signals from the mid ribbon above 3kHz.
It is the lightness of the ribbons and their simple crossover that play the greatest part in making the Scintilla the most natural speaker I have yet heard. The painstaking force focussed magnet array is another. A 700 square inch Kapton backed aluminum panel handles the Bass.
The only reason such speakers are no longer made is because, according to one great speaker maker, "Every day for the Scintilla maker was Ground Hog Day."
The Scintilla matches the Quad's mids, and far out reaches it in the treble and bass. Yes, Medieval music and piano sound exceptionally well on the Scintilla. The difference is the Scintilla can rock too. |
Ritteri, the strings do make the sound. The vented hollow cavity magnifies the sound of the string, adding it's own colorations. That is why violas have heavier strings than do violins.
Likewise, the box of a dynamic speaker introduces it's own colorations to the playback. The dipoles don't nearly as much. That is why we dipole lovers say our speakers offer more information on the real event. |
Pulling the subwoofer topic back into the main discussion, I do believe it is an advantage to have all frequencies expressed by the same driver type. The Scintilla can do all the frequencies required, without the aid of a sub. It also, as I have noted before, has just about the lightest unencumbered drivers ever devised. That leads to ultra fast recoveries, with no smearing. The marvelous frequency complexities inherent in a grand piano are fully expressed in life like manner. |
Khrys, read this - http://www.apogeespeakers.info/scintilla.htm - and write a report. Hand it in on Monday. Thank you very much. |
Dynamics arguable, but harmonics? |
I hope Ritteri isn't thinking that he is the only string or piano player.
Every driver material imparts something of itself to the sound. Minimizing that noise pollution is one aim of speaker builders.
When driver materials are mixed, like in a B&W, then you get more than one sound tincture. This can't be the best way to convey the subtleties of a Guarneri vs. a Stradivarius. |
Frogman, speaking of human shape, the Cabasse Kara should do the kazoo trick, with the authenticity of a cloistered nun. |
LOL Khrs.... very droll, and surpisingly did not go over my head. ;-) |
LOL Khrs.... very droll - and surprisingly did not go over my head. ;-)
You should see the pastel I did of ruler totting Sister Mary peering over her shoulder at me. There is a wad of paper beside the ink well of my desk, and a fully rigged clipper crashing through the wall of windows.
Drawing it was truly a Cathartic experience. |
