Raven v Walker. Colored v Accurate?


This post has been generated following Jonathan Valin’s recent review of the Raven AC-3/Phantom combination in TAS. What intrigues me is not that JV has been lucky enough to review and buy or have on permanent loan yet another world’s best product. A truly astounding strike rate for any reviewer it must be said. Rather, it is what JV readily describes as the colored sound of the Raven/Phantom combination and the apparent appeal of this sound compared with what JV described as the more accurate sound of the Walker that piques my curiosity. This is not, I hasten to add about the relative merits of either table or their arms. The intention is not to have a slug-fest between Walker and Raven owners.

What really interests me is how it is that a product that in the reviewer’s opinion more accurately conveys what is on the source material is perceived as somehow less emotionally satisfying than one which presumably exaggerates, enhances or even obscures some aspect of the recorded information, if one can accept that this is what colored sound or the product’s character is. It appears counter intuitive and the deliberation of the phenomenon is making me question my own goals in audio reproduction. These have been pretty much on the side of more accurate is better and more emotionally compelling with due consideration to financial constraints in my choice of equipment in achieving this goal.

On face value and if you can accept the hyperbole it appears that the colored is better route is a little like going to a concert and putting on a device that allows you to alter the sound you hear. You twiddle a couple of knobs, sit back with a smile on your face and say “Ah! That’s better, that’s what I want it to sound like” You like it but it’s not necessarily what the musicians intended you to hear.

It seems logical that the closer one can get to accurately reproducing every piece of information recorded onto the medium then the closer you should be able to get to the actual performance, together with all the acoustic cues existing at that performance. I am making an assumption here that the recording medium is actually capable of capturing these things in the first instance.

We have our 12 inch pieces of vinyl on the platters of two systems under evaluation. We are not in the recording booth. The musicians are not on hand to play the piece over and over so that we can compare the live sound to the master tape and even if we did every performance is unique so we can never compare a second or third live performance with the one we just recorded. How then can the accuracy of a turntable/arm/cartridge combination and its ability to convey the emotion of the recorded event truly be evaluated? Ideally we should at least have the master tapes at hand to play on the same system in which we are evaluating the TT’s. The comparison will of necessity still be subjective but the determination would seem to be more believable than if the master tape were not part of the evaluation. If the master tape gave the listener no emotional connection with the musicians then I would contend that there would be something fundamentally flawed in another part of the playback system.

So in evaluating the two combinations would the more accurate combination be the more emotionally appealing? I cannot see how it would be otherwise unless we just don’t like what has been recorded or the way it has been recorded, the musicians have not made an emotional connection with us and the slightly flawed copy is preferred to the original. Is this why God made tone controls?

I have used the words seems, appears and presume quite deliberately, not to have a bet each way but because I am cognizant of the fact that we are, in audio reproduction dealing with the creation of an illusion and creating that illusion with people who have varying levels of perception, different experiences and tastes, different playback media and different physical replay environments so the task at hand for audio designers, humble reviewers and even we poor consumers could not be more complex.
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Showing 9 responses by stiltskin

Anyone here compared top shelf phonostages like the Zanden, Kondo and others on the market?

Maybe I'm wrong ,would not the phonostage be a defining component over the table, arm and cartridge?

This tiny fragile signal of the cartridge can easily be distorted.
Acouple of more reveiws are due out shortly of the Raven One and AC model,in magazine form.

Sirspeedy, If you can, take your phonostage along to compare to the Zanden 1200.

Heres agood listening experiment,if the dealer has a run of the mill phonostage in his store of any brand, compare it to yours and the Zanden.

When I get my Raven, I'm going to do just that, compare phonostages.
For me at the top of the list and my budget is the ASR Basis Exclusive, a Nick Doshis Alaap along with acouple of others.

I think there is something to having agood phonostage over what you have for a table ,tonearm and cartridge.

I wonder if Mr. Valin with all this great equiptment he has on loan, having one or two top shelf phonostages on level with the Zanden ,the Walker and Raven would be better served.
Halcro,
I like the word "proportion"

The word itself can be used in many different situations, choices or events in life.

One example is this hobby.

Proportion,the comparative relation between things with respect to balance or symmentry.

Thomas Woschnicks hard work and listening has found a harmonious proportion with his turntable design.
What does he hear with his design that he is so satisfied with for now?
Who here has heard his system?

Halcro,you have found a harmonious proportion within your system using the Copperhead arm.
Who here has heard your system?

I like to think that I have found harmonious proportions within my budget for a system choice and the room its set up in.

The word proportion, I like it.

I get what Halcro keeps repeating to you guys.

Most of Woschnicks design challenges are covered with the man himself in the StereoMojo and TAS reveiws.

Woschnick is satisfied with his designs.
Mr. Valin
I sincerely apologize for my comments...

For a lack of a better word, I was flabbergast with the Zanden 1200 in a system I heard last year.
For a record player that is Thomas Woschnick first effort to bring to the market and to be reviewed along side the mighty Walker, should say something about the Raven.

The Raven is less then 1/2 the price of the Walker.
Even less in Europe

Valin makes this statement clear in print and on line...

The Walker is the best that he has heard, not to be confused with , it is the best there is.

Koegz, I see your point, you should wear a hat.
ELinor and Raul,
Regarding the 3 motor Raven.
Apparantly there is a jump in performance going with 3 motors, no differance using two, but three...Why ,off hand I couldn't tell you.

I have read this somewhere , perhaps in J.Valins review in TAS or over at AV guide.
Also there has been a recent motor speed control upgrade for the AC Raven.