Raven v Walker. Colored v Accurate?


This post has been generated following Jonathan Valin’s recent review of the Raven AC-3/Phantom combination in TAS. What intrigues me is not that JV has been lucky enough to review and buy or have on permanent loan yet another world’s best product. A truly astounding strike rate for any reviewer it must be said. Rather, it is what JV readily describes as the colored sound of the Raven/Phantom combination and the apparent appeal of this sound compared with what JV described as the more accurate sound of the Walker that piques my curiosity. This is not, I hasten to add about the relative merits of either table or their arms. The intention is not to have a slug-fest between Walker and Raven owners.

What really interests me is how it is that a product that in the reviewer’s opinion more accurately conveys what is on the source material is perceived as somehow less emotionally satisfying than one which presumably exaggerates, enhances or even obscures some aspect of the recorded information, if one can accept that this is what colored sound or the product’s character is. It appears counter intuitive and the deliberation of the phenomenon is making me question my own goals in audio reproduction. These have been pretty much on the side of more accurate is better and more emotionally compelling with due consideration to financial constraints in my choice of equipment in achieving this goal.

On face value and if you can accept the hyperbole it appears that the colored is better route is a little like going to a concert and putting on a device that allows you to alter the sound you hear. You twiddle a couple of knobs, sit back with a smile on your face and say “Ah! That’s better, that’s what I want it to sound like” You like it but it’s not necessarily what the musicians intended you to hear.

It seems logical that the closer one can get to accurately reproducing every piece of information recorded onto the medium then the closer you should be able to get to the actual performance, together with all the acoustic cues existing at that performance. I am making an assumption here that the recording medium is actually capable of capturing these things in the first instance.

We have our 12 inch pieces of vinyl on the platters of two systems under evaluation. We are not in the recording booth. The musicians are not on hand to play the piece over and over so that we can compare the live sound to the master tape and even if we did every performance is unique so we can never compare a second or third live performance with the one we just recorded. How then can the accuracy of a turntable/arm/cartridge combination and its ability to convey the emotion of the recorded event truly be evaluated? Ideally we should at least have the master tapes at hand to play on the same system in which we are evaluating the TT’s. The comparison will of necessity still be subjective but the determination would seem to be more believable than if the master tape were not part of the evaluation. If the master tape gave the listener no emotional connection with the musicians then I would contend that there would be something fundamentally flawed in another part of the playback system.

So in evaluating the two combinations would the more accurate combination be the more emotionally appealing? I cannot see how it would be otherwise unless we just don’t like what has been recorded or the way it has been recorded, the musicians have not made an emotional connection with us and the slightly flawed copy is preferred to the original. Is this why God made tone controls?

I have used the words seems, appears and presume quite deliberately, not to have a bet each way but because I am cognizant of the fact that we are, in audio reproduction dealing with the creation of an illusion and creating that illusion with people who have varying levels of perception, different experiences and tastes, different playback media and different physical replay environments so the task at hand for audio designers, humble reviewers and even we poor consumers could not be more complex.
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Showing 5 responses by nilthepill

What intrigues me the most is the fact that what JV perceives as colored sound ( as compared what is believed to be transparent) thru Raven, Phantom, Gold finger/Air tight combo also said to be sounding REALISTIC AND LIFELIKE.
What is going on here? Does it mean that the the so called transparent sound that is picked up by microphones and/or mastering tape HAS some kind of limitations that keeps it sounding transparent but sterile and thus less than lifelike? Stereo recording techniques known thus far are thus inherently flawed and limited to some extent?
I always believed that the live sound is warmer as well as hot but not one or the other and therefore I, myself, always strive towards getting the sound characteristics in my system (Zanden digital, preamp,phono, MBL amps, Dunlavy Vs, Clearaudio MR w everest stand,TQ1, Insider ref wood) that JV describes in reviewing the Raven/Walker.

Also if you go back several issues where JV reviewed Kuzma Stabi/Walker combination, If I remember right, he preferred walker because WALKER produced the sound characteristics that what now Raven produced in this review- warmer and with ample body.

Also as a bonus would not it be nice, if JV said what associated equipment (Tube or SS ;-)) he used in the Raven/walker combo that produced the best lifelike sound?
Sirspeedy and Stiltskin, I have had Zanden 1200 now for more than 6 months and have compared with my other four Phono units- Vendetta Research SCP-2B and 2T, Clearaudio Balanced Reference, Jadis DPMC and Zanden is clearly head above shoulders to others. Vendetta comes closest, if at all. I am looking forward to your impressions..
So..... Why do we think colored sound ( with right color at right places) sounds like real as compared apparently accurate sound. May be we can get back to the topic at hand?
Piedpiper, There is thread called "Capturing the MUSIC; a furtive cause? What R We..." under Misc audio where the link enlcosed imply this fact. Essentially Microphone don't hear as do our ears and there is some aspects lost - be it that 'third dimension' or freq response limitations, directional cues capture limitations, etc during current soa recording process. I wish there is more discussion there in that thread on that.

It is very hard to have a system that has details, presence, and warmth all the way to low mids and not ear bleeding at upper mids and high freq. I have found that when you have realistic tonal balance from top to bottom, the system end up sounding real as far as individual instruments go but overall sound scape tend to become 'small' and real life size and scale goes away. It is as if everything is truncated. This while correct does not overall sounds realistic. On the other hand systems with some color in upperbass, low mids sounds 'big' and right from scale and size perspective, looses out in leading edge definition, details and life-like presence. A high end EQ may be the solution.
Agreed Piedpiper.
But I think instead of same old same old, you would think we would have something definitive explaining causes and effect and answers by now to highlight why current SOA system still don't sound like a real thing (It sure comes close but still not there yet). I wish there were more clear expalnations available and research being done to overcome limitations, that's all.
Meanwhile, Enjoy our beloved systems and the music.