rated power test results sound & vision mag


i'm shopping a new avr $700 range but i would like to get more for less. i'm currently looking at h/k 430 onkyo tx sr702 and integra dtr-6.5. leaning tward the onkyo for thx and value. then i came across this http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

assuming this information is correct there seems to be some real winners and loosers here. i sure don't want to spend my hard earned scratch on some high dollar avr that barly does 30 watts when all ch used. i thought the thx select rating required it preform to a min power rating.

does anybody have lab results for the onkyo tx sr-702 and or the integra dtr-6.5? i feel no need to check up on harman kardon but it would also be interesting to see real preformance. i have been searching but dont have accesss to audiophile.com or other paysites.

looking forward to any comments and suggestions thank you all.
gmarcotte8f97

Showing 4 responses by sean

Here's a link to the original article.

I've been saying for a few years now that most of the surround sound receivers on the market are pitiful in performance. Not only does their power drop as more channels are engaged, their output at lower impedances REALLY tends to suffer. When i made previous statements pertaining to this, others challenged my comments. As such, i had provided previous lists of a few units that actually did okay, both in multi-channel mode and at lower impedances. I have since disposed of that info, so i won't be of much help here.

As such, if one is going to use a receiver, don't expect much overall sound quality out of it. If you want to obtain the best results out of one of these "lame duck" units as they are, stick to higher impedance speakers that are also higher than average sensitivity. This reduces the load on the amplifier two-fold i.e. in terms of current requirements due to the higher impedance and voltage requirements in terms of the higher sensitivity. Using anything but speakers that fit BOTH of those descriptions basically sets yourself up for very poor performance.

Obviously, there are a few units that are better than others, but as you can see, most units don't even come close to meeting spec's. Now you know why "vintage" receivers are going for so much money on Ebay now. That is, as bad as some of those old boat-anchors sound compared to good quality individual components, they still sound MILES better than some of the best receivers available today. Sean
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As a side note, the last receivers that i purchased for friends / family were quite a while back. As it turns out, these units were on this list and actually did MUCH better than the average. I'm talking about the Sherwood AM-9080, which was rated at 120 wpc and actually delivered 108 wpc. While it didn't quite meet spec, it didn't fall too far below that. Newer Sherwood's appear to be "gutless wonders" like many of the other products out there.

It is pathetic to see units like the SONY STR-DA4ES. This receiver was rated at 110 wpc for 7 channels, yet when all 7 channels were driven, the receiver shut down. They couldn't even obtain a power output measurement due to the protection circuitry kicking in. The Sony SONY STR-DB1070 wasn't much better as it was rated at 100 wpc with 6 channels and could only must 31 wpc at clipping with all channels driven. This is almost as bad as the KENWOOD VR-7080, which was rated at 100 x 6 channels and clipped at 35 wpc. Then again, if you really want to see how bad things could get, take a look at the MARANTZ SR7200. Rated at 105 wpc x 6 channels, it was only able to deliver 27 wpc at clipping. PATHETIC !!!

The scary thing that i've noticed about this is that some brands do pathetically poor, regardless of the cost or power rating. As such, one almost has to know exactly which models from which brands are worth looking at or knowing to avoid. While none of their models were "piss poor", even the highly respected Denon's didn't do all that well. A couple of Onkyo's and Yamaha's knocked them out of the ballgames too.

The only brand that i see truly conistent performance from is Harman Kardon. Given HK's reputation "way back when", i'm glad to see that they aren't just a name anymore. The NAD's and the lone Outlaw didn't do "too bad", making them possibly worth looking into. Other than that, those looking for a receiver are in for some slim pickings. Sean
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gmarcotte: 50 wpc is not enough to drive an NHT with any type of authority.

As far as THX certification goes, that doesn't mean squat. If THX certification meant something, all of those horrid HT receivers wouldn't be nearly as horrid or anemic as they are. Sean
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Look for a lower powered unit that has the features that you want, along with preamp level out's. You can then run the Carver for your mains and the remaining channels for your center and surrounds. This will minimize your expenditures while taking a huge load off of the power supply of the receiver. In doing so, the available wattage to the remaining channels will increase in equal measure, allowing better performance all the way around. If & when you choose to upgrade into separate components, you won't be out nearly as much money had you went for a larger, more powerful receiver.

As a side note, i recently purchased a "mint condition" $1200 Pre / Pro / Tuner with a phono section, Dolby Digital and DTS in the box for $250 here on Agon as a gift for someone. On top of getting everything that originally came with the unit, the seller also included an upgraded universal remote control that retailed for appr $150. As such, you might want to look into something like this for now, as it will allow even better potential performance than the RX & separate 2 ch amp. The reason for this? The sagging power supply in the receiver that feeds the amplifier section may also feed all of the other circuitry within the preamp / processor. The end result would be a more stable performing Pre / Pro due to completely isolating that circuitry from the demands of any / all power amplification. Sean
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