Based on my own experience with Beatles vinyl. (I've never heard an original UK Parlaphone).
Their catalog up to MMT is most likely best heard on mono.
Again, this is just from my personal experience. I will order the mono box. (This is partly due to the value it will have in the future).I also plan to order some separate lps on the stereo issues.
Anyone remember the "Yellow Submarine" remaster around 10 years ago on yellow vinyl? It sounds fantastic. So does "Let It Be Naked".
The stereo versions of early Beatles are hard to listen to because they were meant to be listened to in mono.
My unofficial, end user opinion. |
I backed up my perception with my order of the mono box. |
I have cleaned and listened to "Please Please Me". From my limited experience with "good" Beatles lps, this is the best I've heard of this title. "I Saw Her Standing There", all of the vocalists are (each) easy to hear, the drums and bass guitar are very relevant.
Being a mono record in my stereo set-up, I'm very pleased. Some mono records in this set-up give me the impression of a false boundary between the speakers, like there is a definite cut-off point "a wall" (as far as soundstage width) that is present. I don't get that feeling here. While it isn't "stereo" wide, it just seems natural.
According to the enclosed book, the monos are from analog masters. There is a lot of information on the history of these recordings in the enclosed book.
The vinyl so far is quiet. This title, (PPM), is dished, and upon inspection I believe some others are also.
Sgt. Peppers has the band/title printed upside down on the spline. Don't know if this was the authentic way?
As good as PPM sounds, I can't wait to get a mono cartridge in the future. |
I should have mentioned that on PPM, the dynamics are pretty amazing as far as my experience w/ Beatles & mono is concerned. The ambient information, and sustain on vocals & instruments are darn good. |
Couldn't sleep.....( I hope my writing on PPM came through).
"With The Beatles" & "A Hard Days Night" were both pressed off center. Not just a teeny bit either. I reamed out the spindle hole in order to get them to tracking properly. And yes, they are not perfectly flat either. They all can clamp flat. If you don't have a clamp, you'll be frustrated. On (AHDN), the last two songs on side one seem to be a notch lower in terms of sonics compared to the rest of the lp.
I'm still impressed. One thing I've noticed with all three so far is the sound is up front & present. (Also, the vocals are easily distinguishable when more the one person is singing.) Some may take this comment to mean bright and annoying. That is not what I mean. I'm really enjoying listening to the Beatles for, really, the first time on these three lps.
"For Sale" is a different animal. To my ears it seems slightly muffled by comparison to the first three. The bass guitar and drums take a back seat, the soundstage is a notch lower in height,(more on side one). On "Words Of Love" the lead guitar is a little to "hot" for my taste. My only other comparison for this lp is my US mono re-issue. This new one blows that one away. For me, the stand out track, sonically, is "Honey Don't". Somehow, I believe side two is sonically overall the best sounding of the two. "Everbody's Trying To Be My Baby" reminds me quite a lot of Paul's lp "Run Devil Run".
"Help" is another lp that is pressed "off-center". "You're Going To Lose That Girl" was noticeably inferior to all of the other tracks on side one. Side two, "Act Naturally" was an instant stand out track for me. "Yesterday" was really an ear-opener for also. I've never heard it this clear with each individual instrument so descernable. At one point there is a fade or something on Paul's voice that I've never noticed from my years of hearing this tune in the past. Overall, for me, this lp is a slight improvement in terms of sonic quality and consistence of such. Maybe it has to do with improved equipment, acoustics, recording technique, etc. Up until "Help", I'm still slightly more impressed with (PPM), being it was their first and the separation of vocals, dynamics, ambience, and sustain I heard.
"Rubber Soul", again, another off-center pressing. However not as much as the previous lps I've mentioned. The first song, "Drive My Car" really woke me up! If this is the sound I'll hear throughout this lp, I'm even more impressed. A notch above "Help". I just want to crank the volume forever on this cut. I'm hearing a more full expression of every individual instrument and vocal. It really stands out to me. On, "Norwegian Wood", we get perhaps the first glimpse of their later, more prominent middle eastern musical influences. My best reference to compare is my Japanese, stereo lp. Absolutely no comparison. This new mono lp, blows that one away! Side two: "What Goes On", (first track again), This song just makes you want to get up and boogie. Sounds fantastic! On "I'm Looking Through You", something has happened I never thought possible? An early Beatles lp with really enjoyable bass reproduction. While whole lp has it, this track just really stood out to me. This is probably their most "rockin'" lp so far. I could play this one all day and never want to change the record.
(As of now, I'm extremely pleased with the decision to purchase this set. Frankly, if it was offered at twice the price, it would be worth it,IMO. I'm now glad I never spent the big bucks to search out the "best pressings" of the Beatles).
(I feel I should note that of the lps in this box set, I own the following MFSL stereo lps):
"A Hard Days Night"
"Revolver"
"Sgt. Pepper's .."
"White"
"Yellow Submarine", EU, 1999 re-issue on yellow wax
"Revolver": "Taxman", it doesn't "jump" out at me like the first cut on (RS). Listening to this mono version, I'm struck as to how much, (what I refer to as SOUL), this lp has compared to the MFSL. So much more enjoyable, while not as open as (RS), still very, very good. "Here, There And Everywhere" is somewhat a standout, although the lead guitar is a little too hot. "Yellow Submarine" has some nice bass, however the rest of the frequency range is slightly behind (not as open), so the bass stands out more. (An interesting comparison may be made with my (YS) on yellow vinyl from around 10 years ago? Side two: Yes it is slightly off-center. This happens quite a lot. One side will track perfectly, while the opposite side is off. Somehow, we muddle through? "Good Day Sunshine", I get the feeling that this could really be a dynamic number, however it falls short. We get what is there. Again, the sonic comparison between "Revolver" & "Rubber Soul" could not be more stark! Night & day my friends.
I think I'll stop here. I'm sure others will have expressed their opinions on the other lps by the time I do. I will finish, for my own sake.
Keep in mind, I'm evaluating on my stereo set-up, with limited Beatles lp experience. This has been a lot of fun so far. I look forward to finishing at some point. |
Couldn't sleep.....( I hope my writing on PPM came through).
"With The Beatles" & "A Hard Days Night" were both pressed off center. Not just a teeny bit either. I reamed out the spindle hole in order to get them to tracking properly. And yes, they are not perfectly flat either. They all can clamp flat. If you don't have a clamp, you'll be frustrated. On (AHDN), the last two songs on side one seem to be a notch lower in terms of sonics compared to the rest of the lp.
I'm still impressed. One thing I've noticed with all three so far is the sound is up front & present. (Also, the vocals are easily distinguishable when more the one person is singing.) Some may take this comment to mean bright and annoying. That is not what I mean. I'm really enjoying listening to the Beatles for, really, the first time on these three lps.
"For Sale" is a different animal. To my ears it seems slightly muffled by comparison to the first three. The bass guitar and drums take a back seat, the soundstage is a notch lower in height,(more on side one). On "Words Of Love" the lead guitar is a little to "hot" for my taste. My only other comparison for this lp is my US mono re-issue. This new one blows that one away. For me, the stand out track, sonically, is "Honey Don't". Somehow, I believe side two is sonically overall the best sounding of the two. "Everbody's Trying To Be My Baby" reminds me quite a lot of Paul's lp "Run Devil Run".
"Help" is another lp that is pressed "off-center". "You're Going To Lose That Girl" was noticeably inferior to all of the other tracks on side one. Side two, "Act Naturally" was an instant stand out track for me. "Yesterday" was really an ear-opener for also. I've never heard it this clear with each individual instrument so descernable. At one point there is a fade or something on Paul's voice that I've never noticed from my years of hearing this tune in the past. Overall, for me, this lp is a slight improvement in terms of sonic quality and consistence of such. Maybe it has to do with improved equipment, acoustics, recording technique, etc. Up until "Help", I'm still slightly more impressed with (PPM), being it was their first and the separation of vocals, dynamics, ambience, and sustain I heard.
"Rubber Soul", again, another off-center pressing. However not as much as the previous lps I've mentioned. The first song, "Drive My Car" really woke me up! If this is the sound I'll hear throughout this lp, I'm even more impressed. A notch above "Help". I just want to crank the volume forever on this cut. I'm hearing a more full expression of every individual instrument and vocal. It really stands out to me. On, "Norwegian Wood", we get perhaps the first glimpse of their later, more prominent middle eastern musical influences. My best reference to compare is my Japanese, stereo lp. Absolutely no comparison. This new mono lp, blows that one away! Side two: "What Goes On", (first track again), This song just makes you want to get up and boogie. Sounds fantastic! On "I'm Looking Through You", something has happened I never thought possible? An early Beatles lp with really enjoyable bass reproduction. This whole lp has it, this track just really stood out to me. This is probably their most "rockin'" lp so far. I could play this one all day and never want to change the record.
(As of now, I'm extremely pleased with the decision to purchase this set. Frankly, if it was offered at twice the price, it would be worth it,IMO. I'm now glad I never spent the big bucks to search out the "best pressings" of the Beatles).
(I feel I should note that of the lps in this box set, I own the following MFSL stereo lps):
"A Hard Days Night"
"Revolver"
"Sgt. Pepper's .."
"White"
"Yellow Submarine", EU, 1999 re-issue on yellow wax
"Revolver": "Taxman", it doesn't "jump" out at me like the first cut on (RS). Listening to this mono version, I'm struck as to how much, (what I refer to as SOUL), this lp has compared to the MFSL. So much more enjoyable, while not as open as (RS), still very, very good. "Here, There And Everywhere" is somewhat a standout, although the lead guitar is a little too hot. "Yellow Submarine" has some nice bass, however the rest of the frequency range is slightly behind (not as open), so the bass stands out more. (An interesting comparison may be made with my (YS) on yellow vinyl from around 10 years ago? Side two: Yes it is slightly off-center. This happens quite a lot. One side will track perfectly, while the opposite side is off. Somehow, we muddle through? "Good Day Sunshine", I get the feeling that this could really be a dynamic number, however it falls short. We get what is there. Again, the sonic comparison between "Revolver" & "Rubber Soul" could not be more stark! Night & day my friends.
I think I'll stop here. I'm sure others will have expressed their opinions on the other lps by the time I do. I will finish, for my own sake.
Keep in mind, I'm evaluating on my stereo set-up, with limited Beatles lp experience. This has been a lot of fun so far. I look forward to finishing at some point. |
Johnnyb53:
Me thinks like you thinks. Peace. |
Whart: I appreciate the info. I'll be interested in your take compared to mine in your stereo set-up. |
Whart: I just remembered, I have heard some of the "blue box", but on a different system/room. I thought that it sounded very good. |
A teaser....I couldn't help but listen to some of "Sgt. Pepper's" & "MMT" after I signed off on Sat. The sound is big & bold and impressive! |
Afterthoughts: For me, I can't hold it in. I've been listening to the Mono Masters. I just wasn't aware.
I wasn't aware that the Beatles had to release music specifically for individual markets. (UK v. US)
With all of the pressure that the record companies put on them and with the realization of their specific market needs... How in the hell did they do it? Not only did they do it, they knocked it all, "out of the park".
Wow! |
Sgt. Peppers: This is the first lp to be warped in addition to dished. Couldn't clamp it all the way out. Again, this one is pressed off center. The sound is big @ bold. As Stevecham mentioned above, "fresh and present" is how I'd also describe all of these lps so far. The other thing that is pleasantly surprising overall to me is how dimensional these mono lps sound even with a stereo cartridge. "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!": the vocals, especially, are slightly muffled compared to the other songs on side one. This may be due to the nature/theme/artist's intent of this particular song. I'll leave that up to those of you more experienced with Beatles than I. "A Day In The Life": is probably my personal favorite song here. From start until around 2/3rds through it may be, for me, the best sounding song, then the structure of the song changes and the vocals become slightly different. Overall, this is the superior sounding lp so far in my set-up. Much more enjoyable compared to my stereo MOFI.
Magical Mystery Tour: Slightly dished & off center. I'm really splitting hairs here but the vocals don't quite jump out at me as they did on Sgt. Pepper's. Still, this is just a comparison between the two, not a statement regarding sonics or the ability to enjoy. "I Am The Walrus": My personal favorite song here. I'm still in awe on how artist/s conceptualize an idea with so many different elements and put a song together such as this! Pepper's is more dynamically expressive than MMT in my set-up. The sound by comparison is somewhat "rounded over" IMO. "Baby You're A Rich Man": Now I eat my previous words. This cut is dynamically expressive. It compares favorably to the same cut off of my 1999 stereo re-master of "Yellow Submarine". I do believe this mono version is more bold. The same goes for "All You Need Is Love". This lp beats out my gold-embossed promo US pressing.
"White": First lp, pressing is slightly dished, very slightly off center. "Back In The U.S.S.R.": I get the same sense I did on most of (MMT), the dynamics are somewhat "rounded over". I'll leave open the possibility of this not happening with a mono cartridge. "Dear Prudence": The dynamics are more open than the previous cut. The resonance of the guitar strings are prevalent and enjoyed. All of this makes listening a pleasure. On "Wild Honey Pie", the timing changes are easy to hear. "The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill", the drums really come through nicely, full, punchy, natural. "Blackbird", I realize how much more open this lp is, especially when you hear the bird sounds. "Rocky Raccoon", again, this cut sounds better than I've ever heard it before. "Don't Pass Me By", the fiddle is so much more prominent and natural sounding than my stereo MOFI. The next three songs are distinctly more revealing and the transient response is greater than I've previously heard. On "Julia", I assume there is an acoustic guitar in this mix. I'm hearing the resonance of a similar instrument (what sounds like a guitar body), that has completely escaped me before and it is so welcome and enjoyable. This is the kind of stuff that moves me as a listener. Nice, very nice!
Side two: Dished, pressed off-center, (more on side 4). At the very end of "Yer Blues" on through some of "Mother Nature's Son", there is noticeable ticking from the vinyl. (I'll try an additional cleaning later) On (MNS) the resonant behavior/sustain of the guitar strings shine. "Helter Skelter", I've never enjoyed listening to this song until now. I found myself doing the "head-bop". "Long, Long, Long", again, the resonance of the guitar strings shine. The rest of this lp.... I was impressed still. Trounces my stereo MFSL. The first cut on side one was the only cut I found to be somewhat inferior.
The best way, and IMO, the only way to evaluate this set is to listen to it in chronological order from beginning to end. It's fun and informative to hear The Beatles grow and evolve in this way. I have a new found respect for mono done right even on my stereo set-up. It is in several ways superior. I'm just going to listen to Mono Masters specifically to enjoy without reporting on it. Highly recommended! I can forsee a Christmas present to myself of a mono cartridge. |
I am re-listening to "Revovler". It is the most "closed" in regarding soundstage.
I really don't get it. In my set-up, the difference between this lp and any of the others is very easy to hear! |
Tonykay: No I didn't. I made an effort to let others no from the beginning that my review was from my limited experience with Beatles lps and I was using my stereo cartridge.
I've listened to "Revolver" again and (in my set-up) I'm disappointed. |
Thaluza: I don't know your system but by your willingness to even post here says a lot! The German MMT was by my research the best sounding MMT out there also. Based on this, I'm even more glad I waited (so) long to get this, the best lps out there for the Beatles.
Based on my listening through my stereo set-up, the MMT.. even though it was lacking in (my) comparison to Sgt. Peppers, I feel that I am pretty much on the money regarding my initial review. I'm feeling good! So far....
Regarding the MF review of these lps... by my memory, he gives "Revolver" a higher mark than "Sgt. Peppers". Totally opposite from my findings??? |
Mofimadness: I just had a thought... Is "Revolver" the only lp you had a disagreement with my reviews here? Just listened again. In my system, not as open by a margin that anyone would notice in my system. Veiled and dynamically suppressed. Again, in my system. |
Mofimadness: I gave it one more shot. The cartridge I was using did have a lot of hours on it so I put my Dyna D3 on for another listen. The overall sound is much better, more open than previously noted, (I still don't think it's in the same league as Sgt. Pepper's regarding the following note): Here's what is different from the other lps in this box, the soundstage is more centrally located, very limited width. This can give the impression of being somewhat veiled as well IMO. Song to song consistency is not as consistent, even compared to "Rubber Soul" IMO. |
OK, I put myself out there in a big way by reviewing this set. It seems that a few others disagree on "Revolver". I've made my points. I'd appreciate the opinions of those who still think "Revolver" is one of the better sounding lps in this set. (You're not alone, MF liked it). |
geoffkit:, Yes it was...as was "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby"
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I realize that I should have said, A Ringo "covered song" instead of "penned song". Thanks for the heads up!
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I've re-listened to all lps. I have a VPI Classic 3 Sig. SE now (much better than my older rig), and a Ortofon Cadenza Mono.
I'm happy to report that my previous findings are still correct in what I'm now hearing.
"Revolver" is still more closed in regarding the soundstage and "For Sale" is still somewhat compressed in relation to the other lps.
tonykay: As you just read, I have a dedicated mono cart and my findings are the same.
johnnyb53: "Revolver"... I really wasn't overly concerned about the width of the soundstage on this title as an overriding factor. It was in the comparison to the other lps in this box set, that I found "Revolver" to have a more closed in soundstage. My review was in the context of my experiences with my previous Beatles lps vs. all of the lps in the Mono box.
Having said this, I enjoy the other lps more because of their lack of those deficiencies.
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On "Honey Don't"... for some reason, this Ringo penned song, sounds very good! I also found on the other lps that those Ringo penned songs to be slightly superior. Go figure?
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So, for clarity, (In my objective listening), I find Revolver & For Sale to be disappointing in relation to the other lps in this box.
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I'm enjoying mono very much recently. On releases that were originally recorded in mono, this is the way I prefer to listen. I'm expanding my mono collection when/where I can. I've also listened to a few stereo lps with my mono cart and thoroughly enjoyed them. To each his own.
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