Nandric, they are available only used right? This is something I'd like to avoid...just like buying used underwear ;) What is sort of surprising is that it seems
there is little verbalized experience on TSD vs SPU carts. Or does it confirm that sonically both families are relatives so there is nothing to talk about? |
Let me pharase it differently: is there any interesting cart in the 1-1.2kEu range which would: 1) match SME3012R 2) be "harder", more agressive than TSD15?
Cheers,
--b |
Well, I don't know if the automotive analogies, which seem to be a kind of standard here, are applicable and for sure do not appeal to me. Let me explain.
I have no problem with old used cars, or used TT's (mine 930 has worked in Yugoslavian radio for example). We all know
what a "programmed obsolescence" is and it has become a modern standard, but anyway with carts I do not feel safe buying 2nd hand. Carts are obviously much more delicate and the precision scale is orders of magnitudes higher than cars. Buying 2nd hand one never knows what the previous user(s) was doing with the cart, how are the magnets, suspension, etc etc and the stylus condition is only one but not the only one variable. So the bottom line is that there would be no warranty that the cart is within it's original specs (save the stylus). I have no experience with FR7 so judging by ear if the cart is as is should be would not be possible.
An eventual rebuild is also a tricky business.
Even well established cart manufacturers do have problems here. I sent my TSD15 to EMT for a complete rebuild and it came back tracking and distorting worse than a DJ cart abused all it's life with scratching! They had to rebuild it 2nd time... |
Pani, "better" is a very tricky word here. What is better for me may be worse for you, you know. One candidate I was looking at was SPU Royal N (without the resonating box which may or may not be responsible for upper bass/lower mids colour), but again since EMT derives from SPU how different it would be?
Halcro, there is now FR7fz on the known site. Imagine I'd like to buy it. What should I look at to see if the cart is as it should be? What are the checkpoints? Also, how would it fit SME3012R? |
Halco, Nandric, I have no idea about the persons you are mentioning, apart from one of them kindly sending me some useful info via PM and then asking not to ask him any Q's again as he will not reply... IIRC, he was/is some automotive consultant, hence the automotive analogies???
(BTW, I do not deal with underwear...used nor new ;-))
Anyway, it seems that getting FR7 is sort of an underground activity in some gnostic circle...Again, having a cart in my hand how would I know if it's ok or I'm being fooled?
Also, what is the right price?
Halcro, my arm is SME3012R. So, hypothetically thinking, would it be "appropriate"?
Thanks! |
Lewm, thanks. I'll take a look. Yes, with the 2nd arm I'd like to proceed by contraries. Apart from Transfiguration, any interesting cart in the Shelter and Benz families?
BTW, why you guys want to behave like primabalerinas and get offended if your advice is not received kneeing is only known to you...I'm grateful, but not uncritical. I cut my system to my taste. The only cart which has been proposed was FR7 and my objection was that it's 2nd hand which I wanted to avoid if possible, which I tried to explain why.
Finally, I started thinking more seriously about it but it seems that i) there is no experience on how it matches SME3012R
and ii) how to recognize if the cart is in a good shape. To me both things seems logical.
What other carts have I "hit out of the park" (whatever) God only knows.
|
Nandric, I think you are very much off the topic of the current thread and I have no idea what made you start this personal attack. Perhaps you should think about your very self?
I group the Q's which popped up within the thread, perhaps there is somebody who may know something, unlike you obviously:
--how does one recognize that a given FR7 specimen is within it's specs, not being familiar with FR7 sound?
--does FR7 match SME3012R?
--what would be aright price for a good FR7?
--how does SPU and TSD families relate sonically, esp. Royal N vs. TSD15SPH, if anything is known?
If they are self-serving "contra Q's for each Q" or "peculiar", I leave to judge the others.
Ahh, and thank you very much for your advice with using Ebay & Paypal...indeed ingenious!
BTW The person I mentioned started his PM with the quoted statement. I did not ask him any hard Q's nor actually wanted to. I've found this behavior sort of bizzare, but I do not care...everybody has his/her own style.
|
Pani, not at all: my topis is general as it's stated in the 1st post. I'd be somewhat interested in those sonic impressions too. |
Dear Nandric, I have no idea what makes so angry and why you insist on deviating from the subject. I do not "demand" anything, I'm simply curious. If there are no answers to my Q's, ok, no problem, it means there are some gaps in the common pool.
If you feel that I should kiss your ... for you generously posting in this thread, then thank you very much and maybe do not post? |
U picku materinu, Balkan am I not, but I do know a few tasty phrases in Serbo/Croato/Bosnian (how do you call this language after the fall of Yu?) and Bulgarian, so Nandric beware ;-)
Comming back to the subject (which is carts and not personal attacks, Nandric): the obvious canon seems SPU-SME and FR-FR.
I briefly tried simulating 3012-FR7 interaction via this great tool:
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=36347
I get something: a peak at 7.7Hz, OK, an alert that VTF should be 3.17g instead of 2g...a bit of a mess... |
Lewm, perhaps I did not say it explicitly, but what I'm thinking of is to try to mix the oposites: euphonic pre with a "harder" cart. I do like 834. I want to see
what it does with a more agressive cart. If this approach is a dead end or not I do not know. I hope not.
"starting with the EMT turntable, tonearm, and cartridge, you were bound to end up with their combined sonic signature on your music"
This is exactly something I'm trying to diversify by mounting the second arm and the cart. My vision is to have 929 + TSD15sph as a sort of "romantic" combo and a second combo, more ...hmm...complex let's say. For the 2nd arm, the 930 will serve only as a table, there will be no more EMT stuff in the chain. Why 3012R? Simply by reputation, reasonable price, and an occasion to buy one in a perfect shape.
Borrowing parts...albeit living in one of world's most well known cities, I feel like I'm in a sort of a technological desert ;) What I do think of doing is to try different SUT's, e.g. Dave Slagle |
What? I'm not attacked and you started to talk +/- about the subject? I'm surprised!
Halcro, thanks for the input, both on ZYX comparison and pointing to Topclass. I understand that a peace of mind costs, unlike buying on E...y, so if Topclass is trustworthy, that would solve my objections on cart condition. I was trying to find some info on 3012R-FR7 eventual match, but with no success, so if anyone has any experience please speak up. Also, physical connection of this long cart to the arm seems non-trivial. What is the connector type?
Pani -is it the same Yamamoto as the one making teflon tube sockets?
As for Michele Pffeifer underwear, Nandric, ti glupy seljak, I know how to use "search" on E...y....and if you dance like you discuss then I do not want to be in 10km radius from where you dance :P |
Ok, it seems that there would be a precedence on 3012R + FR-7: A fellow called T_bone mentioned that
"I have not found an FR-7fz, but I am happily using an FR-7f on an SME long arm now. "
Would be interesting to learn what longer SME he used/uses and what the combo was able to offer.
Also someone on hifiwigwam, post #287
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?19878-T-Table-picture-thread/page15
and the same person on AA
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=964798&highlight=SME+3012&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dtubes%26searchtext%3D302b
So at least some people did try it... |
I've been offered ex-Raul fr7f. This Raul seems a guy who has owned all carts on earth. Is there any way to contact him? |
Finally, I've abandoned the FR-7 idea and as per Rahman suggestion will try a Decca Jubilee. The big unknown is it's matching with 3012R...possibly problematic due to loose bearings, but maybe FD-200 damper will help. |
Fleib, I put it wrong perhaps.
I meant how the Jubilee will work with knife edge-type berings in general. My particular 3012R is 100% ok, recently tested and reported "pristine, like new". |
Pani, ok will keep in mind, thanks. I'll have a chance to try Jubilee directly in my system and I'm tempted to do it :-) |
