I appreciate the feedback everyone.
Jimbo3, I was afraid this would come up eventually. Afraid because I have what would no doubt be considered a "low-fi" Kenwood system (made for the masses). It's a fairly basic Kenwood A/V integrated receiver that cost about $350 6 years ago and only has Dolby Pro Logic (at the time Dolby Digital was way too expensive for me).
I understand that both Music Halls and the NAD are much higher grade ("mid-fi"?) than my entire system, currently. But, I didn't want to play the upgrade game (losing even more money) with every component in my system and another turntable. I am fully prepared to wait a bit longer in order to save up a little extra now for a better turntable. So that I can enjoy it longer before upgrading it again in the near future (like I will have to do for the rest of my A/V components, already).
My current A/V Receiver DOES have phono inputs, but probably not on par with what either the Music Halls or the NAD can produce. This leads me to a question, if I were to upgrade my phono stage (isn't that what we're talking about here?) to say a PP-1 Phono Preamplifier for example, do I then simply plug its output into one of my Receiver's AUX inputs (standard RCA jacks)?
Thanks,
Wes |
Psychicanimal,
Do I understand you properly...are you saying that, at least in your opinion, the Technics SL-BD22 is a better turntable than both the MMF-2.1 and the NAD 533?
Also, I don't buy much from Crutchfield - I just use them as a source of information (a starting point). I can almost always find the same product cheaper elsewhere (especially online!).
Wes |
Bomarc,
After re-reading your post about Sony vs. the Technics, when you said the following:
"I also wouldn't buy a table with a no-name cartridge, like the Sony. And upgrading the Sony means dealing with a standard-mount cartridge. Welcome to the finicky perfectionist side of audiophilia! (It's quite doable, but you have to learn how to do it.) By contrast, the p-mount on the Technics (I'd go for the better one) really is plug-and-play."
Are you then saying that changing a standard-mount cartridge (which the Music Halls and the NAD have, don't they?) is fairly complex (at least for a "newbie")?
If this is what you were saying, then I agree with both you and Psychicanimal that I should start out with the ease and "plug & play" of the Technics turntables (and their p-mounts). And see if I think I want to be a "tweaker" audiophile in the future (and hence upgrade to a more "standard" audiophile turntable, which will be more complex). I really don't care about resale value. Heck, I might even give it away to a friend...if I even upgrade at all.
Maybe I should do some more thinking about this...
Wes |
Jim,
Well, I have 6 (probably low- or mid-fi) Infiniti speakers. The usual for Home Theater (my primary reason for purchasing my system, at the time)...2 fronts, 2 rears, center, and a powered Infiniti subwoofer. Not bad, but I would guess it would make most people who post on this forum laugh. ;-)
Well, I definitely am taking my time to plan. Dude, I'm a perfectionist...it's one of the things that I do best! ;-) This is why I'm posting such a question on a few message forums and doing research...probably over-analysis (again, one of the things I do best ;-).
I'm just trying to make sure that spending even $200 makes sense for "just a turntable"...much less $400+ - especially for a "newbie". If I get close enough to that $600 figure, I will have to wait and save just a little bit more and go the VPI HW-19 Jr. route...it just sounds like the way to go at that price point.
Funny enough, in doing a little more research on the Technics SL-BD22, one reviewer at Epinions.com had some quality issues with his and replaced it with a NAD 533 - which he said was a "major improvement!". :-)
Thank you very much for sticking with me and helping me (indecisive and all) to make this all important decision (at least to my pocketbook ;-).
Wes |
Hi Bundeel, Glad to be of service...I hope this post (and my indecision) can be of help to others who are new to analog, like me. I have also seen that the Regas run 1% fast, but based on my research that is far outweighed by the fact that: 1) The Regas/NAD have gotten much better reviews than the Music Halls (based on my research - check out the reviews of all of them on AudioReview.com). 2) The Regas/NAD are much more upgradeable (again, this appeals to me) 3) The tonearm of the Regas/NAD are considered some of the best, and are used on many other turntables. They are often used when upgrading one's turntable to a better one. 4) The poor quality of manufacturing/workmanship of the Music Halls (I've read how many state that the wiring falls off of the headshell when changing the cartridge - the first time! and other issues). 5) The manuals that come with the Music Halls are that good, it would seem - especially someone new to analog/tweaking/setup - that they don't assist well enough in the setup of all the adjustments. This is still why I can't seem to bring myself to spend $260 on what is considered by many THE entry-level, "beginner" audiophile turntable...the Music Hall MMF-2.1. Instead, I'm strongly leaning toward the $370 NAD 533, which is actually more of a competitor to the MMF-5...I believe (or at least in between the MMF-2.1 and the MMF-5). Just my $.02! Wes |
I thank everyone for their suggestions/recommendations!
Bomarc, you think it would be ok to get a low-end Techniques turntable with a p-mount cartridge? You don't think this might "damage" my albums?
Here are the one's I've seen at Crutchfield (the Technics SL-BD20D or the Technics SL-BD22):
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-wP59wAxOLTi/ProdSearch.asp?c=4&s=0&cc=01&g=10500&td=&tn=&l=&a=&search=turntable&est=&o=p
If anything, after performing some early research, I was leaning toward the Sony PS-LX350H or the Music Hall MMF-2.1 (since they both had similar mid-fi like features). I was thinking about getting the less expensive Sony (I can find it for $180 new) and maybe getting a much better cartidge - like the Audio-Technica AT440ML moving magnet phono cartridge that Crutchfield lists as an accessory to the Sony PS-LX350H here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-8U5jvVfqEPR/ProdView.asp?s=0&i=057AT440ML&cc=01&o=&a
I was hoping that would bring the quality of the Sony closer to (or better than) the Music Hall MMF-2.1 with it's default cartridge.
One thing that does bother me though is the reported numbers for wow & flutter of the Sony vs. even the cheapest turntable at Crutchfield (the Sony's is the worst!). But, I was told, by some audiophiles on another message board, that the Sony (didn't mention the Technics at the time) would further damage my albums (being a cheaply made turntable for the masses), as I assume both models of the Technics are (even more so since they are more "automatic" than the Sony, with none of the adjustment capabilities of the Sony...much less the Music Hall).
So, should I buy the...
Technics SL-BD20D
Technics SL-BD22
Sony PS-LX350H
Music Hall MMF-2.1
...and what about that Audio-Technica AT440ML phono cartridge (or something similar)?
Thanks, I really appreciate the assistance!
Wes |
Dbx & Bomarc,
Thank you both very much!
Well, Bomarc, based on the criteria that you have stated:
--price (The MMF-1/2.1 wins here, although if I looked hard enough, I could probably get a NAD 533 [used/demo/other] that would narrow this gap - for a turntable with much better performance, upgradeability, etc. --> MMF-1/2.1)
--ease of set-up (The Music Halls and the NAD are probably very similar here, both are between "plug & play" and "tinker". But, based on reviews, the manual that comes with the MMF-2.1 leaves much to be desired [especially for a "newbie" like myself]. --> NAD 533)
--ease of upgradeability (Here, based on my research, the NAD 533 wins hands down! --> NAD 533)
--build quality (Again, one of the most disturbing trends in the many reviews/posts that I've read about all of the Music Hall's is their "lack" of quality of workmanship. --> NAD 533)
--brand reputation (Some have stated and/or heard bad things about the Music Halls, whereas the many more reviews/posts about the NAD 533 are much more favorable, and more consistently so. --> NAD 533)
...I would have to pretty overwhelmingly put my money on the NAD 533.
My only other perfectionist "potential" issue with this decision is the fact that the MMF-2.1 has a VTA adjustment whereas the great Rega OEM'd RB-250 tone arm on the NAD 533 doesn't...should I be concerned about this?
Thanks,
Wes |
Well, given all that...this puts me back into my original position - leaning toward the NAD 533 (or the MMF-2.1, if I just can't wait or justify the added cost). Jim, I am more inclined to go with a "new" turntable for the reason brought up by Bomarc, it would already be setup correctly (or closer than I could/would be willing to do at this point). So, while I understand what you are saying about the Rega P3 (and I do understand that it would be an upgrade to the NAD 533, since it's base on the P2), I want that "plug & play" for now. I can tweak later (if the urge arises). Bomarc, I was just stating that about what you said with respect to standard vs. p-mount because based on most reviews of all of these turntables, everyone saw the cartridge that ships with them to be the weak point in the system and replaced/upgraded them immediately. I would be inclined to do the same, being the perfectionist that I am, now that I know this to be the case. BTW- Darn few on this forum even think about snickering at someone else's system. Virtually all have started out looking forward to upgrading to what you now have. This generally isn't a "keep up with the Jones'" crowd, so don't concern yourself with that. This is a surprising statement. Thanks for the info, that (and this exchange) alone will keep bringing me back to this site and forums! Thanks again, ya'll (yep, I'm a Texan...if it wasn't already obvious ;-)! Wes |
Again, thank you everyone for your assistance and kindness!
Jim, I appreciate the offer. If/when I make it down to San Antonio again, I might just take you up on your kind offer! ;-) Based on the assistance I've gotten from this message forum already, I would probably come here first for used equipment. For now, I'm just afraid of what I might get (without the proper knowledge) in the used equipment arena...especially since I'm just an analog/turntable beginner (including proper tweaking knowledge). ;-)
Albertporter, I live in the DFW area (south of Dallas, for now) - so I might just take you up on your offer. Something I have been looking for, unsuccessfully (albeit, I haven't really tried that hard as of yet), is a local store that carries turntables so that I might be able to listen to some of the turntables that I've got on my list ("beginner" audiophile) - to help me decide (and to possibly purchase from locally, and learn more from, etc. ;-).
Psychicanimal, well you don't have to get "snippy" (sp?) about it! I was honestly asking the question of you. But, since the sound coming from the turntable is more important than specs alone, it's interesting that, as I posted earlier, a reveiwer at epinions.com posted that after replacing his Technics SL-BD22 with a NAD 533 (which costs ~$400 new), it was a "major improvement!". Now I'm assuming he means in sound quality. :-)
Regards,
Wes |
