Quietest amplifier you have ever owned.

Most amps are typically very quiet with some of the newer "digital" type amps coming up as exceptions. I have had greater problems with preamps or ground loops generating a higher noise floor than anything else. If you have noise within the system ( whatever the source might be ) and you are running very high efficiency speakers ( horns ), the problem will be exagerated to a more noticeable extent.

As to the specifics that you mention Bob, i would start checking tubes. It is possible that it is a noisy design in terms of circuitry, but i would want to rule out a possibly defective tube(s) before placing the blame on the designer / product. Sean
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You're right Pbb. I'm scrapping all my gear and buying Pioneer, Sony, Technics and Kenwood. Think of the money i can save in the future and the money i can put back into my bank account after selling all of the gear that i have now !!! Since the mass market stuff all measures the same, and the measurements are good by most people's standards, and it all produces sound that one "could" call "music", i've wasted a LOT of time, money and effort with the over-priced junk that we call "sound systems". Ha !!! Thanks for opening my eyes !!! You've steered me back onto the right path once again. Both you and Norm Strong have been right all along.... Sean
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Jtinn: While some of you probably know that i'm not a fan of Bryston amps ( don't know anything about their preamps or processor ), one of their amps was reviewed a while back and had a VERY high S/N ratio. I want to say that it was very near or slightly above -120. I'm not sure, but this might have been the little 60 wpc integrated. Maybe someone can refresh my memory. Sean
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Jtinn: This was a spec that was measured / verified by an outside source i.e. a full fledged review with bench specs. I think that it was Stereophile that did the testing / review. The S/N was so good that they went off on a tangent about how the s/n ratio of a piece of gear equates to how many bits of data it could pass without raising the noise floor.

Bob Gates: That was a very good and simple answer. Only problem is that the people that need this explained to them "probably" don't think that one is capable of hearing hiss / noise between notes so long as the gear is designed reasonably well. On top of this, they would probably say that if you can hear noise / hiss with the gain turned down, how noisy / insufficiently designed is the gear at high volumes with more gain cranked into it ???

Pbb: Norm is an electrical engineer that has a wife that put him on a budget. As such, all of his audio gear consists of Pioneer, Sansui, Technics, Sony, Kenwood, etc... that was bought on close-out or garage sales. He posts occasionally on AA and Rec Audio Opinion and has stated that all of his gear measures well, works good enough for him and that people can't hear the differences in gear that they claim to be able to hear. To the average audiophile, he is a budget minded "nay-sayer".

As such, you two should have a ball reading most of the posts here and on AA. Then again, Norm would probably tell you that you wasted your money on the gear that you bought since one can't hear any difference between reasonable components. Then you would know what it's like to be nagged by a budget minded nay-sayer and might begin to understand the bad taste that such comments leave in one's mouth. Sean
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Drubin: Pbb was basically commenting that most of us are wasting our time seeking out components that both measure and perform better sonically. He basically stated that we are worried about subjects and situations that will never come into play. That is because he is of the opinion that most gear is "plenty good enough" once it reaches a specific level, hence his typical stone throwing signature of "from the mid-fi trenches". While some of his observations do apply to various conversations, i think that the majority of his comments would blend in more with the Audio Review crowd better than what they do here. Sean
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Drubin: My comments to Pbb are not based on his input to this thread alone, but to his continual attack against those that seek a higher level of reproduction to that of what he personally feels to be necessary. He constantly tries to remind us just how stupid we are for going to the extremes that some of us do. After subtly attacking someone, he typically tries to "soften" his belittlement of their comments / efforts by saying something like "responding from the mid-fi trenches".

Here's a question to the rest of the participants on this thread:

How do you judge whether or not your system or a component has a high noise floor ?

Personally, i select an unused input on the preamp and crank the gain wide open. If i can hear any form of noise or hiss with my ear next to the speaker, it is noisier than what i want to hear : )

Obviously, someone with very high efficiency speakers and / or those with a very bright frequency response may hear more hiss / noise than someone running very low efficiency speakers or speakers with a rolled off treble response. If checking a source, you obviously would select that source with no signal being sent to the preamp and advance the gain. Obviously, one should NOT do this with a tuner and the muting turned off : ) Sean
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