Question on Denon DL-103 retipping options and preferences

So if I understand this correctly you have had this 103 and played it long enough to wear it out. If this is the case what did you like and what did you dislike. What kind of rock are talking about Steely Dan or Metallica or maybe some punk. A lot of rock albums are lean. A stock 103 can help bring them alive. When you retip with the so called up graded cantilever and or stylus you give up some full body sound of the midrange for some detail. So depending on gear, and tastes only you can make that decision.  For the record I have 4 dl 103 and 2 103r. 2 retiped and 1 wood body.

Better value is MM or MI with user replaceable stylus, mid or high compliance, advanced stylus profile and the sound like a master tape with any genre of music including rock. Some nice MM cost no more than $700, but what is your budget? I like Grace cartridges (for example).

With any cheap MC you have only 600 hrs - this is more or less a life span of the elliptical tip (and you can’t replace the stylus yourself, so add re-tippers service fee, you already know it's time consuming process, in the end even "cheap" MC is not cheap, so many limitations). I like MC cartridges, but mine are expensive. There are no direct preferences when I compare some of the best MC and some of the best MM/MI. It's better to have both types!  

So, you haven't even heard the thingy. Have you heard a Denon DL-103 on a friends system?
Any MC on your system? I hadn't, had to make a choice based on research and advice.

1st you said Rock, then Jazz and Rock.

My instinct: get the DL-103 going with advanced stylus shape on aluminum, for 'not too much' money, use/hear it, keep it as your base and compare future considerations to it.

I talked to Steve at VAS when I had the same idea as you: buy one broke, fix it, save money. He gave me specific advice when I found opportunities, usually involving potential complications ... I decided to get new.

My first MC is AT33PTG/II (check stock of anything these covid days)

https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Audio-Technica-AT33PTG-2-Dual-Moving-Coil-MC-Cartridge?language=en&c...

to my surprise, in addition to sounding great on my mostly Jazz, it can rock! Santana, War, Rare Earth ... and electronic stuff like Eurythmics, Blue Nile. Slide, banjos: Dicky Betts, Rising Appalachia, Larkin Poe! Violins: check. Piano: check. Stand-Up Bass: check! Drums: check.

Next, my friend gave me a NOS Goldring Eroica LX.

https://www.goldring.co.uk/goldring-eroica-lx-cartridge.html#tab2

I have it on my 2nd arm, so I can compare to the AT within seconds. Less separation (can be beneficial), the special Gyger II stylus shape is rare,
sounds great

I have had retipping done by Any Kim on 2 103R’s. One with a Sapphire cantilever and the other a Boron. Both with Micro Ridge stylus. Any is
a great guy to work with and his work is as good as it gets. The reason
I first used him was because it took Peter from Soundsmith almost a year
to return my cartridge for a retipp and repair! Andy’s turn around time was
great both times. If you are looking for a cartridge that compares to some
 mega $ brands, send it to Paradox  for a Pulse Guard mod. I have the Pulse Guard R and nothing can touch it under $2500. Andy works very closely with
Parodox—both Based in California.

hdm , As he said he has the cartridge already-so he doesn’t have to shell out
the cash for a new one. I have had  a lot of audio equipment modified over over the years. Most of it was purchased used long before the mods were done.
The way I look at It I got plenty of use out of the original equipment before the
mods-so they didn’t owe me anything. In every case the modifications elevated
the sound quality to what a new unit costing way beyond the total of the unit
and the modification cost. I believe this will be the case with the 103.
Keep in mind that I had 103r’s done and not the 103. Justin’s results my vary.

Dear @justinrphillips : You posted:


"" If there is something I should look at outside the DL-103 I would be open to hear about it  ""

" Not looking for the Denon sound .... just looking for a great MC cart that will make me happy with rock ...."

"""  I have never heard a Denon 103, and for that matter I have never heard a MC on my system.  """

""""  I have been curious what a 103r moded would be like compared to a 103  """"

Certainly all those statements makes sense to you and maybe for other gentlemans but not for me.

It's obvious that you have a misunderstood on your overall " looking for " due that you are not an experienced gentleman.

I own and owned almost all 103 versions that I bougth several years ago when I was exactly as you: ignorant on what means " great " cartridge ( your word. ).

The 103 was not designed for home systems and is a cartridge that lives in the very wide and deep mediocrity sea and I was swiming there for " years " and seems to me that you want it.

 Good luck with.

R

Hi - I know the Audiomods arm, I have set a couple up, including one on a the top of the range Platine Verdier turntable,.

In my view forget about the Denon 103 standard or modded - the arm does not suit it.

For your budget for a MC under $700 my recommendation would be

AT33PTG/2 -this is an excellent cartridge with boron cantilver and micro ridge advanced profile stylus. It is very musical - around $650

ATOC9/XML - again this is an excellent cartridge with boron cantilever and microridge stylus - around $550

The AT33PTG/2 is a very well balnced, smooth, detailed cartridge that punches well above its price. The OC9/XML, again excellent value for money, has a little more bottom end punch than the AT33. Between the 2 its a choice of beautiful balance ( AT33) , or more punch (OC9).

Although the OC9/XML is not the top of the OC9 range this is the most musical of the OC9 range, the microlinear stylus is not as finicky as the higher priced shibata which can sound brittle.
Same with the AT33PTG/2 - the micro linear stylus profile has the best balance of detail and not to bright or brittle.

My own prefernce of the 2 is the AT33PTG/2 - its a fantastic cartridge for the money. For reference I currently use Koetsu, Ikeda and Dynavector cartridges north of $5k but could happily listen to the AT33PTG/2.