Question on Denon DL-103 retipping options and preferences

What you described is not a re-tip, your cartridge will be refurbished with completely different stylus/cantilever combo.

Re-tip is just the stylus tip replacement on original cantilever, but the original method is press-fit (the one and only benefit of aluminum cantilever), it will be more complicated for re-tipper to glue just the diamond, so they will glue the whole new cantilever to the collar. The cantilever/stylus combo mounted together by the companies like Namiki or Ogura in Japan.


Of course you can buy a better cartridge than refurbished DL103 for your audiomods tonearm. 

@chakster what would you recommend for rock? Want to keep it an MC cartridge.

Better value is MM or MI with user replaceable stylus, mid or high compliance, advanced stylus profile and the sound like a master tape with any genre of music including rock. Some nice MM cost no more than $700, but what is your budget? I like Grace cartridges (for example).

With any cheap MC you have only 600 hrs - this is more or less a life span of the elliptical tip (and you can’t replace the stylus yourself, so add re-tippers service fee, you already know it's time consuming process, in the end even "cheap" MC is not cheap, so many limitations). I like MC cartridges, but mine are expensive. There are no direct preferences when I compare some of the best MC and some of the best MM/MI. It's better to have both types!    

Are you using your 2 stage 2a3 SET amp to make these comparisons. For the record I had a grace f9e for over 20 years a nice polite cartridge. For rock and roll the denon will wipe the floor over the F9E. A grado sonata will beat up a F9e in rock and roll and was never design for that. But maybe you do not own a master tape with rock and roll on it.

Tom, I have many amps, but not a 2a3, if you’re talking about my Yamamoto A-08s SET then my choice of tubes are 45s (not 2a3). I slowly upload images on "my audiogon system page" everyday, but at the moment there are stuff I’ve been using before 2019.

Did I even mention F9? I said I like Grace, but I have nearly all Grace cartridges (in my collection of the best MM) from F8 Custom to F14, including F12, LEVEL II and even a signature Grace Asakura ONE (this is LOMC). If you ever heard about any of them (except for F8 and F9) let me know. The F9E is not the best Grace. There are much better Grace cartridges with LC-OFC coil, Beryllium, Boron, Sapphire, Ceramic cantilevers, LineContact and MicroRidge styli. This is what I like from Grace.

I forgot to ask about the pressing facilities and their equipment. I have 3 different labels for some of my favorite albums . Quess what they all sound different. Do not know which one sounded like the master , but I do have preferences in my system.

I guess your post is trolling.

Ok, I do not have a master tapes at home, but I’m in the music industry for over 25 years and I traveled a lot in pre-covid era, I was taking pictures at some of the best independent analog studios in Europe, the closest is Timmion Records in Helsinki (linked files below are from my 35mm film)

They got tons of vintage studio equipment and instruments (this is hammond organ for example), their live band is The Soul Investigators, this track (recorded in Finland) was in Barack Obama playlist. I

I was in the studio at the recording sessions several times. They got this Neumann cutting lathe with "12 inch SME tonearm and Stanton MM cartridge, this huge Studer multitrack and some other equipment to die for. They cut lacquers (master disks) for many labels, they also cut lacquers for myself. I’ve hear fresh masters before and after pressing (Pallas Pressing plant in Germany - one of the best pressing plants today in Europe). I was an executive producer of 8 records pressed in Detroit on Archer’s pressing plant.

Sorry, I do not listen to rock’n’roll, except maybe for a few The Doors albums, I prefer ’70s Funk & Soul music and related stuff.


*** Regarding MM vs MC and the master tapes, I will post this once again for you to read, maybe you will find names you can trust in quotes from the article below:

Another interesting article in the back issue of TAS (The Analog Sound, Issue 40) magazine called "Assessing the State-of-the-Art in Storage Media". In this, J. Tammblyn Henderson reports on a listening session comparing digital master tape, analogue master tape, direct-to-disc lacquer and the "live" mike feed; the report consists of a long conversation among J.Boyk, Keith Johnson, Doug Sax, and J. Tammblyn Henderson himself.

What cartridge could have the "lowest distortion of all," "uncanny" resolution, better than master tapes?

Kavi Alexander, auteur of the remarkable Water Lily Acoustics series of analogue vinyl discs, is monitoring disc production by comparing test pressings to the master tape. What cartridge is he using? Another moving magnet, this time the TECHNICS EPC 100 mk4. But he describes the AUDIO-TECHNICA AT-ML170 as very similar, and very close to the actual sound of the tape. In this comparison, he says, virtually no moving coil does so well; most have seriously apparent coloration.

The contrast between these views of moving magnet cartridges and usual audiophile opinion is striking. On the one hand, we have assurances from these leaders of the High-End recording industry that the best MOVING MAGNETS are very close to the master tape (or live mic feed, for direct to disc) and that they are capable of "uncanny" resolution. On the other hand, we have the prevailing perception, amounting almost to a shibboleth, of the High-End listening community, that only MOVING COILS are realistic in some sense of that word and that moving magnets are incapable of sonic truth.

As ASP pointed out in TAS (Issue 70), the audiophile consumer and dealer community is massively arrayed against MOVING MAGNETS cartridges. But experimentation is interesting, and in this case inexpensive. If your audiophile friends give you a hard time, you’ll certainly have a pat answer: you can say if it’s good enough for Kavi Alexander, Jim Boyk, and Doug Sax, it’s good enough for me. The AT-ML170 has tip resonance at 40 kHz, and hence response that extends to that frequency at least. Flanders again: "The ear can’t hear as high as that. Still, it ought to please any passing bat." Seriously, though, such ultra-extension does seem to be associated with exceptional top end clarity.

Everyone is entitled to personal tastes, but truth is truth. If you want to hear something like the truth, I still say-no matter what everyone else is using-that you should buy a flat-top cartridge like the AT-ML170 and avoid all MC cartridges with a rising top-end. If the sound of live music is your goal, why would you want to hear a sound which is not only untrue to its source but also is something you are "seldom conscious of live".



**** P.S. I bought all the cartridges from that TAS article and they are all amazing! As I said I like LOMC cartridges too and I have many of them, but I can always recommend an exceptional MM for lower prices than my favorite LOMC cartridges (FR-7fz or FR-7f, Miyabi MCA or Miyabi Standard, Miyajima Kansui ... they are all very expensive). Cheap cartridges like Denon 103 or 103r can’t compete even with cheaper MM, you have to invest another $500-800 to a conical DL103 (and it will be completely refurbished) to make it listenable.

Instead of constant rebuild of one cheap cartridge, designed for radio broadcast in the ’60s, it’s better to buy 3 more different cartridges made in the '80s that already have high-end cantilever and advanced stylus profile.

User replaceable stylus is huge benefit, this is what we call usability, you don't need a re-tipper to buy JICO SAS stylus replacement, they made those super advanced stylus for many vintage MM and the stylus available from their shop. 

For GRACE owners new styli availabe from SoundSmith here. He's got many options from $200 to $500. Basically all you need is a cartridge body. His F9 compatible with F12 and F14 too. I prefer genuine styli, they are hard to find, here is mine (NOS).  

I really don't know why people believe that MC cartridge is better than MM (especially equally priced MM vs. MC) ? 

Let’s see: at $560 divided by 3 that’s $185 a piece for cartridges with a boron cantilever and microridge stylus.

I’ll have three of those too! We’ll call it the new math/new cartridge/audiophile combo.

You forgot to add another $300 for a cartridge itself prior to the cost of refurbishing service. Some people charge much more for 103 mod, the total with cart itself can be near $1k. Look at the prices for Zu DL103 or Anna Mighty Sound service etc.

Boron is not mandatory for a perfect sound, Beryllium is better. There are great MM cartridges available with Boron, Beryllium cantilevers, Audio-Technica line of MM cartridges (old and new) for example. Some of them available for something like $300-700. The AT20SLa is wonderful cartridge. There are so many great cartridges.

I have mentioned Grace (cartridge body) and NEW styli from SoundSmith for those who can insure themselves.

When I bought my JICO SAS (Boron/MicroRidge) for Technics 205 series it was $350 for the stylus, now they increased the prices. Another model for JICO Boron compatible with Garrott Brothers dynamic coil cartridges (and Shure cartridges too), but Garrott available new for AU$ 690 ( which is $500 USD). This is a legendary cartridge.

Sony XL-50 MM is an excellent cartridge with Boron Pipe cantilever, I bought a few and I was shocked. JICO styli available for this model too. The original is superb.

So many cheap discoveries are in Raul's MM thread, for some of them prices are not increased much over the years. 

"You forgot to add another $300 for a cartridge itself prior to the cost of refurbishing service. Some people charge much more for 103 mod, the total with cart itself can be near $1k. Look at the prices for Zu DL103 or Anna Mighty Sound service etc."

Re-read the thread from the beginning my friend.

He paid the cost earlier, it does not change the total value, cartridges are not free. It is better to buy a good cartridge from the start than to try to make a bad cartridge better. Anyway, this is just my point of view.    

Audio-Technica cartridges are great and always good value/quality ratio, you can’t go wrong with any of them, because of this brand we don’t have to pay too much for a decent cartridge (mm or mc).