Proud Harbeth p3esr owner - need help tweaking/troubleshooting


Due to the pandemic I catch myself spending more time in my outdoor office space - small 14.5x7.5 feet room with glass windows on two adjacent walls - where the speaker are. It's got wood floors and a 7.5 feet ceiling. The other half has a large desk and a bookshelf. Since it's my private space I have decided to build 'my dream' audio system - different from my main listening room/home theater. I listen to all genres of music from 80's and 90's pop, Folk, Jazz, Electronic, Classic Rock and Latin. No hard Rock or headbangers music.

In my mid-40's and enjoying the audio hobby for decades now, I like my music warm, with non-fatigue listening for hours, where frequency tones are balanced, yet detailed without the grain and glare of vocal peaks or highs, yet presenting instrument separation. I want to enjoy the music. I took the leap, and purchased a pair of Harbeth p3esr. Also, purchased Croft Phone Integrated amplifier to pair with the speakers. Had a Metrum Onyx DAC at home already hooked to my Roon core. Using Morrow Audio MA1 RCA interconnects that were laying around, with Belden speaker wires also on hand. Speakers are on heavy 26 inch stands.

I have around 60 hours on the Croft integrated and Harbeth p3esr so far, but have not found the audio nirvana moment yet. I find the music at times (on certain songs) harsh. It's usually when multiple instruments are played together with sharp pitched vocals. Don't get me wrong - Emma Guzman - Woman the instrument separation and vocals are dreamy, The Game of Love by Daft Punk, the robotic vocals are life like with emotions - but 40 seconds into Wrong Girl by Lindsay Ell and you'll hear her vocals peak and want to run to lower the Croft integrated manual volume knob towards to noon mark (starting point). 

Speaking of which, the Croft Phono Integrated, being a superb hybrid amp, has a lot of gain and is immediate sounding. At 1 o'clock position (noon being the starting point), the sound is comfortable listening at 70db. Turning the volume knob to 2 o'clock it's gets loud to 80db + and 3 o'clock is where you want to turn it down. Never distortion - but enough sweetness and finesse to drive the p3. Loud for the room. 

Metrum DAC has a more or less standard line output level of 2V, and the Croft amp has a relatively sensitive input sensitivity of 250mV. An amp of this sensitivity runs the risk of clipping the voltage waveform before the power stage. Maybe alternative amps have a more relaxed gain structure at the input, sensitive to about a whole Volt. The reason why I am rushing for the volume control as the peas get harsh.

How do I make the famous Harbeth p3esr to sing and show it's true colors of warmth, composure, mature sound, astonishing vocal coming from the diaphragm and the details that it's famous for? How do I listen to hours of different genre music without the need to turn the volume low or move my head up to look at the speakers? Is it the high gain/sensitive Croft Integrated amp or is it the bright Morrow Audio RCA interconnect or maybe the speaker wires? Or maybe the whole set up is a dream and an overkill for the room.

Any feedback by the brilliant minds on this forum with years of experience would be greatly appreciated. With warm regards,

ghulamr

Showing 4 responses by jjss49

@ryder

i agree with you

my super 5’s, compact 7’s currently, and even the mon 40s and 30’s i had before all like more power rather than less - the hegels have wonderful synergy

lots of folks use tube amps, but i have found tube pre and really good ss power amp is the best combo, unless you go big buck audio research reference series and the like
@ghulamr

a few comments

you are not discovering the p3’s need more power... you are discovering synergy in tonality between components to a sound your ears like

the croft is a slightly uptilted, ’spot-lit’ piece in signature - crofts and lfd's which gene rubin successfully sells with large harbeths are synergistic as they work this magic on the larger harbeths -- which are tonally warm and need a little more zing up top and to wake them up and ss damping factor down low to tighten the bass a touch, the p3’s do not need either...

....otoh the earthquake ht amps are well known for an extremely rolled off treble, that is their value proposition (ie... earthquake!) and their sound is tuned to that end

your setup is still biased towards bright, with room, location, cabling ... what have you

what we know for sure is the metrum dac is relatively warm and tonally full, but it seems that the rest is not...

when you get a properly linear hifi amp after returning the croft, i suspect you will be back on this merry go round again

the volume knob setting you refer to is a red herring... like the sensitivity of an accelerator pedal tip-in to the movement of a car - a more sensitive pedal for the first 20% of the range of motion doesn’t make the car more powerful...

good luck
@ghulamr

my 2 cents

1. most solid state amps, even good ones are going to give you glare and harshness with your room set up as it is, no decent solid state amp will roll the highs enough to remove the bite

2. setting up a subwoofer will make the music sound fuller, but will NOT cure the harshness

3. sitting nearfield is a very very different listening experience than sitting ’in the room’ - nearfield removes the room pretty much

4. do not spend more than a couple hundred bucks on wire - don’t waste money ... look into tuneful cables - very reasonable, sound great, soothes the edge a little bit while providing excellent transparency - the problems you have, NO wire can fix

5. if you are whetted to your p3’s you may want to look into tube amplification (after treating your room - that is first priority, before any equipment change)

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649662049-conrad-johnson-cav50-control-amplifier-lk/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649558164-audio-research-vsi-55-superb-tube-integrated/

6. best solution, i will repeat what i said below is getting a set of compact 7’s - they are natural, warm, imminently listenable, if you want harbeths - otherwise buchardt s300’s or older spendors

no affiliation to any of the brands above... but i own, or have owned, everything i mention

@ghulamr -- first - your room is very bright, you need numerous soft surfaces, heavy rug, fabric window coverings, corner tunes, perhaps standing baffles to catch the 1st reflection

second - the p3’s are the least warm sounding harbeth because of the lack of bass, the croft is a transparent not at all a warm sounding piece -- you should get a set of compact 7’s mount on 20’s, it is the harbeth closest to what you seek