Pros and Cons of built-in amps?

It would seem to me that running the source through a quality balanced cable directly to the speaker would be the way to go if possible.

Yes it is the way to go if you want professional quality fidelity and low distortion. If you prefer a more forgiving or nice sound then you may find it too much of a straight jacket to live with. Each recording sounds completely different (more different then you will have been used to ever hearing)...so you lose some of the flexibility to tailor the sound. Room modes can become more problematic because of low distortion => basically any issues become more noticeable....so it is not without frustrations, bad recordings and distortion that makes it way on to a recording will more easily grab your attention - this can actually spoil some of what may have been long time car stereo favorite tracks...

Pros
Much Lower IMD (each amp drives a separate narrower band and basically has an easy life compared to a regular amp driving a difficult speaker load)
Greater Dynamics/SPL (no lossy crossover, amp tuned to load)
Phase compensated => good impulse response = good on drums/percussion
Less background noise hiss if you use balanced XLR cables and source gear
ATC's use Class A amps up to two-thirds power
Much less chance to ever blow up the speaker drivers(momentary gain reduction is possible in each amp which is specifically designed for each driver)
Low cost - overall since it is easier to design amps that drive an easy load over a narrow bandwidth then you not only get better amplification but it can cost less too.
No need to worry about speaker cables or run lengths

Cons
Nead an AC plug for each speaker
Speakers are even heavier - shipping for resale can be a problem!
Repairs may be more costly if you have to send speakers back to get amp packs refurbished/recapped/calibrated (usually every 15 years or so)
Resale to audiophiles is limited so you may not want to get the "Anniversary" editions with stunning veneers but a black ash box or a pro model instead (active is only popular in pro markets and pros care very little for ultra expensive veneers...)
Troubleshooting - obviously integrated packages are harder to nail down to the root cause.

Listen to this lecture(bear in mind Meridian sell Active Speakers - so take everything said with a grain of salt)

Yes these PMC's should be on your audition list - I would add the Genelec 8050A's too - a real bargain when you consider what you are getting for around $4500 new - I am impressed with their bass response - so much so that I could not believe that these small speakers were actually ported! Overall a very nice balanced articulate presentation (you can easily hear every detail in the recording but it is not torn apart as some studio gear is known to do). They also image like there is no tomorrow. The metal dome is not to my taste but many people love the clean crisp sound!

Professional studios already reap these benefits and in exchange give up the ultimate sound quality for something that is good enough and revealing enough to get the job done. Whether active speakers can ever rise to challenge the state of the art remains to be seen. Perhaps someday.

and

Those who don't accept the superiority of vacuum tubes are probably not going to "get" this one either, but it happens to be true.

and

On paper, active systems seem to have many advantages, but in practice and in the real world, they have failed to live up to those claims.

What Dave says is actually true of many small home studios and local smalltown outfits for TV and radio and making CD's for local talent. Like Hi-Fi - studios are tiered - for many "good enough" is indeed enough and many do everything as absolutely cheaply as they can.

However the idea that the Best or most Prestigious Studios in the World with extremely wealthy clients would use something "just good enough to get the job done" is surely laughable...many of these places have millions invested in just microphones (and they use plenty of tubes too)! They try to attract extremely wealthy clients (who are hard to impress) and suprise surprise quite a few of them use custom designed studios with main monitors that are active. George Massenburg, a legendary designer of equipment, uses actives for near-field and for far-field. Here is a pic of the studio he designed in Nashville Studio C. Do you think he cut corners on the sound - so that it was "just good enough"?

Examples of things that these studios don't or won't consider are vacuum tube amplifiers and exotic audio cables. They are also often hindered by a misguided belief in the superiority of digital and DSP.

Well it is a shame that these professionals are so hindered by their misguided beliefs. Pink Floyd use David Gilmour's studio "Astoria"....it has plenty of tubes and several miles of Van den hul (audiophile) cables as well as Shunyata. They even have different wiring to the woofers and mid range on their active speakers. So at the high end the lines do blur IMHO...both audiophiles and prestigious studios are seeking perfection in sound. Pink Floyd's sound engineer James Guthrie also uses active speakers along with EMMLABS gear (no tubes in the playback chain - but plenty of tubes in his studio of course).

So while we agree it is not about saving money as Pink Floyd have plenty of money... but I am not sure I would agree that Pink Floyd are hindered by misguided beliefs about active speakers driven by solid state power amps... David Gilmour Studio

I'm glad Mr. Gilmore has learned enough about high end audio to have gotten that far. I doubt however that he is an expert in this area like he is in making music and playing guitar.

Well I'm glad that you treat me, Bob, Ryder and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame and many other audio professionals in the same condescending way (people hindered by misguided beliefs or simply inexperienced).

Perhaps David Gilmour and his guitar tech (who built most of the Astoria studio setup using reputed acoustic engineers and contractors) can one day hope to reach your wisdom - as for me, I fear there is no hope and I shall remain an amateur at these audio things.

FYI: I am glad that you are pleased there are tubes in the Astoria studio. These are all in a separate room - away from the direct sound of the monitors because, as even the inexperienced know, tubes are microphonic, which is a form of distortion.

Chord makes some of the best solid state gear I have ever heard. (I am not a Chord dealer)

Your point about Chord is a good one - I have recommended these amps in other threads. I am glad to see you finally came up with what I would say is a fair statement - it took you a long time though!

Are we sure that studio use active speaker for sound quality reasons? Maybe it's for convenience or something else.

Well you can read on line what people say about active speakers - Telarc Here is an excerpt: "We feel like we're finally hearing the detail of our work for the first time," says Telarc president Bob Woods of the installed ATC monitor system. "As a professional studio product we've never encountered anything quite like it. You want something that's accurate, but to have a system that can handle all types of musical programming equally well is downright remarkable. We do as much popular music these days as we do classical and jazz, especially through our new label partner, Heads Up. The ATC system handles it all without flinching."

You are correct in assuming that studios have a different goal in mind with active speakers - obviously they don't buy the "sound" - they actually by "no sound" - basically the goal is to have a system that does not impose any coloration on the recording at all. So many of the things you mention are important. They must not "compress" the sound at extremely high volumes, they must be precisely linear at all volume levels (no limited sweetspot in volume level where the drivers integrate their best), and they must be extremely reliable. However, your idea that studios want a colored sound with greater prescience or other gimmicks added to the playback chain could not be further from the mark.

Anybody who does not hear diffrences between a SET amp (any one) and any class A or AB solid-state amp is either

Well the only reason that you may hear a difference is that one has distortion or coloration that the other does not (for example at higher output levels or under certain loads) or alternatively you "perceive" a difference when you know what you are listening too. Fundamentally there is absolutely no reason why the two should not sound the same (given the right designs). I don't doubt that you may have come to believe you can hear a difference, after all a typical high quality tube amp output transformer will behave like an EQ when connected to a variable load such as a speaker and this change in coloration is indeed audible (it is like a mild form of tone control which follows the impedance curve of the speaker - very slight and in no way detracts from the sound - but certainly audible in most cases).

BTW - I have nothing - absolutely nothing against tubes - they can and do sound fantastic - they are awesome and hands down beat SS amps for producing a warm sound to music which is rich in even harmonics and the way they clip makes them absolutely essential for guitar amps and some microphone applications.

However, claims that any old tube amp is better than ALL SS amps is just wishful thinking. I commend your enthusiasm - tubes rock - it is nice to have total conviction - it simplifies your choices and allows you to snear at anyone so stupid as to use solid state amps!

Dave,

So you don't like ATC. I hear you loud and clear and you are quite entitled to even go as far as to hate them. That is fine - and it is OK with me - many people don't like this kind of sound. A forward sound that can "make your ears bleed", as some people have described on other threads - to each his own. However this thread was about active speakers (those with built in amps).

So just because others (like Bob Woods or David Gilmour or George Massenburg) disagree with you (and happen to like active speakers) does not necessarily make them hindered by misguided beliefs or inexperienced.

They prefer something else to what you prefer. If you could understand this fact (people differ in what they like) then you could become a much better audio dealer. Instead of forcing your dogma on your customers, you might learn to acknowledge their preferences. You could probably sell more products and have happier customers...just a thought - it might not be too late to learn listening skills and to learn that what is the best is often in the eye of the beholder...

I think CDC has the right idea...studios value different things from home audiophiles and his point is an excellent one...."horses for courses" is what I understand CDC is saying.