OK,
listen up guys.
Thank you all for your opinions.
The speakers in question are Martin Logan CLX ART.
I resent, the commentary, that this event/post is bogus.
The events HAPPENED, as stated.
Keven Deal, knows me, and knows the situation.
He ADMITTED, that BOTH his pre amps were DEFECTIVE!
Anyone, who has doubts about my honesty, can contact MR. Deal,
DIRECTLY.
This is a well documented situation, he will confirm my version
of events.
By the way, I am an ENGLISH Canadian.
Cheers,
George |
The amplifier used was the Bryston 28B SST3 1,000 watt per channel
mono blocks.
Kevin asked me the same information, but the amps have been cleared,
this is a PrimaLuna issue.
He says that both amps have been repaired, and I should not have that problem again.
Please forgive me, if I have lost confidence in your brand.
I told him that I am not going near his products again,
Chinese made equipment is PERMANENTLY off my list!
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I would like to see, Mr. Kevin Deal, respond on this forum, and defend his position, product and quality control standards.
Also, one thing we all must know, HOW MANY pre amps/amps have you had to repair, with this same issue??
How many units of your existing stock have you had to pull out of storage and repair, due to my bringing this defect to light?
HOW MANY, MR. Deal, HOW MANY?
This will give everyone, a complete picture as to the true extent of the problem.
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I checked with Bryston.
The Bryston amps, as well as many other high end amps, DO NOT
have DC output protection. ( such circuits degrade sound)
If, the pre amp, puts out DC, the amp will amplify it, and send out to the speakers, which is what happened in this case. |
The OP is 100% legit!
I stand by every word I have written in this forum.
I would welcome Mr. Kevin Deal, to join this conversation and present his side of the story, as a matter of fact, I would like nothing more!
As for equipment matches, this is of no relevance in this matter.
NO equipment, should blow up your speakers, no matter what it is matched with.
As for Bryston amps DC protection, I personally spoke to Mr. Brian Russell, one of the owners of Bryston, and he ASSURED me, that
the 28B SST3 DOES NOT have DC output protection.
I seriously doubt that he is wrong, however, if someone finds out
otherwise, then we would all like to know.
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Hello Soundscapemd,
thanks for your commentary.
Talking about "skewed", you are are PrimaLuna dealer, so, we take your comments with a bucket of salt.
I am sure that other speakers have been damaged by primaluna preamps,
and that the owner is not aware of the cause.
I am sure, that a "SAMPLE" of 2 would be more than sufficient for you, if
it was your speakers that were damaged!
Anyway, here is the issue, if PrimaLuna is, as you say, WHY does
Kevin Deal, not come on this forum and defend his product??
I ask again, WHY??
Perhaps, he is not aware of this discussion, PLEASE, do us all a favour,
CONTACT him, and let him know!!
We are all waiting to hear from Mr. Deal.
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Just to clarify,
I returned BOTH pre amps to my dealer, and he returned them to PrimaLuna for repair.
My dealer refunded me for the FULL cost of the preamps.
I have absolutely, NO PROBLEM, with my dealer, I received
FIRST CLASS SERVICE.
After all, he did not manufacture the equipment, he only sold it, in good faith.
My problem lies with PrimaLuna, TWO preamps, bought 6 weeks apart,
and both are defective, in EXACTLY the same way, and both damage speakers!!
This is NOT a one off case, PrimaLuna has a manufacturing problem.
I repeat, Mr. Kevin Deal, WHERE ARE YOU?
Please come on this forum and explain yourself, WE WANT TO HEAR
YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY!!
Patiently awaiting for Mr. Deal.
|
Dear Mr. glassandlight,
the only thing that is BS is your post.
If what I am saying is not true, then, I ask you this,
WHERE is Mr. Kevin Deal, to deny my allegations??
For your information, Mr. Deal, HIMSELF, confirmed that his pre amps FAILED and put out DC, which damaged my speakers.
Now, please go back to sleep, the world is safer, when you are not awake.
You try to come across as knowing something, but it is clear,
you know NOTHING. |
Dear fsonicsmith,
Here is what you said,
"I bet you are not the original owner of those ML's and paid a mere fraction of the $30K you kept spouting about."
I guess, it must be in your nature, to make STUPID assumptions!
I bought the speakers NEW, I am the ORIGINAL owner!
That is why they were repaired by Martin Logan at no charge, Martin Logan warranties are Not transferable.
Too bad you are not mature enough to deal with the issue, trying to discredit me reflects very badly on your level of intelligence.
My problem is, that Mr. Deal, feels that he has no responsibility because the speakers were repaired under warranty and and I am not out of pocket.
This is all true, however, my level of frustration was through the roof!
Martin Logan simply shipped me the parts, it took me the better part of
TWO days, trying to locate the problem, and then, taking the speaker apart and replace the power board.
Also, this had to be done TWICE, since the PrimaLuna destroyed the
newly newly installed power supply again, before we could track down the source of the problem!
Is a pair of tubes, proper compensation, for what happened here?
I personally think, NOT BY A LONG SHOT, however, I leave it to the
Audiogon community to pass judgement on this issue.
Also, Mr. Deal, you say that you replaced the capacitors in all your current stock, "just in case".
Mr. Deal, I ask you this, are you going to recall all the pre amps, THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY SOLD and are in customers systems?
Or, are you just going to lay low and hope that clients with blown speakers don't make the connection to your pre amps/amps.
Can we have an answer to this question, Mr Deal, the Audiogon community is waiting for an answer, what are you going to do?
If, you truly care about your customers and you are honourable, you will
issue a recall of all product sold and is in customers hands to fix the capacitors.
This recall, should be prominently displayed on your website, advising customers to return their product for repair/modification.
THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, this is the LEAST you can do!
Mr Deal, we are all anxious to hear your decision on how you intend to handle this.
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Mr. Deal, you say that you replaced the capacitors in all your current stock, "just in case".
Mr. Deal, I ask you this, are you going to recall all the pre amps, THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY SOLD and are in customers systems?
Or, are you just going to lay low and hope that clients with blown speakers don't make the connection to your pre amps/amps.
Can we have an answer to this question, Mr Deal, the Audiogon community is waiting for an answer, what are you going to do?
If, you truly care about your customers and you are honourable, you will
issue a recall of all product sold and is in customers hands to fix the capacitors.
This recall, should be prominently displayed on your website, advising customers to return their product for repair/modification.
THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, this is the LEAST you can do!
Mr Deal, we are all anxious to hear your decision on how you intend to handle this.
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"He has a legitimate gripe, but he isn't dealing with the issue, he is simply trying to hurt those involved even those involved had no ill intent toward his negative situation and have taken steps to correct it. thorloki, you have lost credibility with me.
Tim"
Dear timlub,
I am not looking for my $30,000. speakers to be replaced, I am NOT looking for compensation for my time lost and aggravation.
I have never, during this whole episode, asked for ANY KIND of compensation from PrimaLuna.
I understand, what happened here, was not intentional, on the part of PrimaLuna.
However, PrimaLuna, as well as other manufacturers, need to understand that they bear some responsibility for CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES!!
Putting out defective pre amps that blow up speakers and then offering to
REPAIR their DEFECTIVE product is NOT acceptable.
I would ask, that the posters who disagree with me, to consider, how they would feel, if this happened TO THEM??
I am asking for ONLY ONE THING, for PrimaLune to take care of it's customers.
I am asking that PrimaLuna, issue a recall of it's products, verify them,
and repair/certify and return the products to the owners.
If, as Mr. Deal says, he changed the caps on his units in stock, why then,
do the pre amps in customers homes, not deserve the same treatment?
If PrimaLuna, does this, then my faith is restored, and all is good.
IF NOT, then my suspicions are confirmed and PrimLuna does not give two bits about it's customers or the products it sells.
Lets see what Mr. Deal does.
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Excuse me!
When TWO pre amps, bought 6 weeks apart, FAIL, IN EXACTLY the same way, this points to a much deeper problem.
If, my two pre amps are just an incredible fluke, why then, did Mr. Deal
replace the capacitors in the pre amps he has in stock??
As yourself that question and then tell me if he should issue a recall.
|
" This failure was most likely due to the system or something in the home. That's all there is to that. "
Dear Mr. Deal,
I wonder what, in my home, we can blame, for the failure of your pre amps.
Perhaps it was my beige coloured walls that upset your PrimaLuna's, could that be?
I know, it was probably my green carpet that did it!
No wait, I got it, it was those NASTY Martin Logan/Bryston components,
that's what pissed off your PrimaLuna's!
OK, I have spoken my mind, I will let the Audiogon community draw their own conclusions from what has been written in this thread.
Mr. Kevin Deal, I am speaking to you personally.
In conversing with you on the phone, several times, you can across as
sincere.
Therefore, I am taking you at your word, that my TWO pre amps were
FLUKES, and that YOU HAVE NOT HAD ANY OTHER failures, of a similar nature to mine.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, as I do not believe you would
deliberately mislead me, as well as other PrimaLuna owners.
And with that, I consider this issue closed.
Mr. Deal, I wish you well, and good fortune going forward.
George |
Greetings atmasphere,
Hey man, thanks for your post and analysis, well written and well thought out.
Perhaps you are right, perhaps this would not have happened in another system.
However, manufacturers of preamps/amps should know that their equipment will be mated and matched, with other equipment, in every possible combination.
If, primaLuna is not a good match for electrostatics, and problems can arise, then BUYERS SHOULD BE WARNED, prominently written, in the owners manual.
By the way, another post just mentioned that a Harbeth speaker was blown up, USING a PrimaLuna preamp!
I just don't know what to think, but it sure requires investigation/monitoring.
Thanks again for the post, GOOD STUFF!
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