Primaluna Dialogue Premium or Premium HP?


I am hoping for some feedback from anyone who has experience with the PL Premium or HP.  I have a Dialogue One now, that I really love!  I have B&W 803N speakers, which are notorious for being hard to drive.  However, this Dialogue drives them wonderfully.  Now, the bug has got me, and I'm thinking to upgrade, to get clearer, cleaner (still tubes) sound, and a bit more power for bass control and power.

That said, I'm considering either the Dialogue Premium or the Dialogue Premium HP integrated amp.  I am able to get a good deal on the HP, making the cost difference unimportant.  Any thoughts on the difference in the two?  Only once, I read that the HP has more power but less finesse.  Anyone have experience with both who could comment on this?  Or other considerations?  Which would you choose if cost weren't the object?  Of course, saying that... going to separates would be cost prohibitive.  I know I'd see even more improvement with separates, but don't want to spend that cash now.

And, there isn't an option for me to audition them next to each other.  I'm going on faith and my current PL experience... and hopefully the collective knowledge of this forum.

Thanks!
128x128soundermn

Showing 3 responses by beyondarkness

Funny I found this thread, since I am actually facing the exact same dilemma. I have owned a DiaLogue One for more than 6 years at this point, and absolutely love it. It was the bargain of the century and a real gem of an integrated. I have tried many different tubes with it, but have settled with a quad of the new re-issue Gold Lion KT-88's, which after many a back-and-forth, I find offer the best possible balance between finesse/midrange magic and dynamics/control. I am actually using the DiaLogue One with Sonus faber Elipsa SE's (or "Red"), and, amazingly enough, the synergy is incredible. Plus, I have a small room, so dynamics and slam are more than sufficient. At one point I was concerned about headroom and efficiency, specially as the speakers were breaking-in and sound was a little uncontrolled. Sonus fabers are also famously difficult to drive and have a tricky impedance curve in the lower registries. Just to see if I was missing anything, I even tried a McIntosh integrated (retail $6K) and a Hegel H-160, both with FAR MORE theoretical and quoted power than the PrimaLuna, and, plain and simply, it wasn't even close. The DiaLogue One blew them all out of the water. No contest. I was in awe. 

Cut to a few days ago. I have been curious about the DiaLogue HP Integrated, which is getting rave reviews, and my dealer was kind enough to loan me one. This one came with EL-34's. I do not have 8 KT-88's to spare, so this was not an apples-to-apples. I had all the intentions of buying the HP, and I could get a really good deal on it, specially if I sell my DiaLogue One (they hold their value fairly well), so money was not really a concern here. I REALLY wanted to love the HP. 

I will cut to the point: the DiaLogue One is staying. In fact, I preferred it BY FAR. For some reason, the HP was not as open, not as detailed, not as delicate, and not as "ripe" as the DiaLogue One. Amazingly enough, the difference when it came to dynamics and bass grip and control was minimal at best. Yes, it did have SLIGHTLY more control, but at the expense of everything else. The DiaLogue One, I would say, was a 7.9 in that department. The HP was an 8.5. Not worth the trade-off. 

I'm sure that if I were to use 8 KT-88's things may be different, but I frankly was not convinced that I needed to "upgrade". When I went back to the DiaLogue One, the soundstage was wider, and the midrange was just right. Bass was more than enough. Frankly, I was in shock.

Another thing to keep in mind: more tubes, more problems! More things that can go wrong. More heat (this was evident REALLY quickly in my small room). More $$$ when it comes time to re-tube (after a few times, you can pretty much buy a new DiaLogue One with the amount it would cost to re-tube an HP with 14 (!) quality tubes). 

Where did you read about the HP having less finesse? Curious to read that as well (I fully agree), since reviews seem to unanimously praise the HP.

I did notice one HUGE improvement in the HP, however, and that was the volume control and potentiometer. Dramatically more accurate, precise and smooth when using the remote. I was impressed by that. 

But my DiaLogue One is staying. I love that thing more every day. Plus, my OCD tells me that it looks way cooler than the slightly-too-much-of-a-good-thing HP. 
But, the real question is whether it's the major step forward you'd hope, based on its cost.  I would say it is a step forward, but probably not the major leap you'd expect.  If I was to go back, I'd opt for the Dialogue Premium instead and spend the extra $1k on music.  I don't think the extra power makes a substantial difference.  Even the Dialogue One handled my B&W speakers quite well.

I agree with the above. I felt the same way, and decided to keep the DiaLogue One, since I felt that the DiaLogue Premium would have been a move sideways at best. They are all fantastic integrated amps. However, I did feel that the HP was considerably less open than the One. But this may have been a combination of the EL-34's compared to my KT-88's, as well as the low hours on all the tubes. 

As an aside, you may tire quickly of the KT-120's. I know I have been down that road. Great at first, shrill and with a hint of glare after a while. I always end up getting back to the Gold Lion KT-88's, for some reason, and love it. 

For the record, my system is not so dissimilar from yours (and I also listen mostly to rock and classical):

- Prima Luna DiaLogue One
- Sonus faber Elipsa SE
- Oppo 105 + hard drive
- Pro-Ject RM 5.1
- Nordost Brahma power cord on the amp, straight to the wall
- PS Audio Duet on the digital front
- Nordost Heimdall 1 on interconnects and Heimdall 2 speakers
Thanks for your input, Kevin. I actually bought my DiaLogue One from you back in the day. Your post really says it all.