Prima Luna Premium Pre

I saw this thread and smiled. I can assure you that PrimaLuna is everything that the experts say it is. As to the fellow that said he likes to listed to it loud, I just received this from another Mac owner that has 601 amps. He didn't sell the Mac...I don't think. But has the following things to say:

Kevin the Primaluna equipment arrived in fine shape, one Dialogue Premium preamplifier, and one Dialogue Premium HP power amp. I got them set up and currently playing with interconnects, so this is what I have found out so far. The following comments are compared to using a Benchmark HGC driving a pair of Mcintosh MC 601 amplifiers using balanced interconnects. If anyone say’s tubes are not for Magnepan 1.7’s they just haven’t heard the above Primaluna set up. It takes the preamplifier and the amplifier about one hour to come on song at this time, will see if it changes as it breaks in. The Primaluna is very quite you do not hear any tube rush through the 1.7’s. or other noise at any volume. The bass is very good, in some respects better than the Mac’s which surprised me, also the treble seems more extended. But as everyone knows the music lives in the midrange and this is where the Dialogue gear really shines. The Dialogue gear will not make a poor recording sound good, but on good recordings it doesn’t get any better. The thing that has really surprised me is the increase in dynamic range over the Mac’s, some of the criticism of the Magnepans is a somewhat compressed sound compared to some dynamic speakers, if that’s a problem get some Dialogues. To sum up the sound at this time there is just more there-there. Now I’m redoing my listening room and making some new equipment racks hanging the TV on the wall all of which I hope will help the room. People this Primaluna Dialoque gear is the real deal get you some.

I also wanted to respond about preamps. You can't say there is a CJ "sound" anymore that you can say there is an ARC "sound". The CJ ET-3SE is a hybrid. Quite different than the PV-10, 11, and 12. And it uses a 6922.

ARC has made hybrids too. And hybrids are fine. But there is no "family sound".

These are the facts about preamps:

There are no "new" designs. It's a hybrid, or uses multiple tubes or followers or feedback to lower output impedance. All this crap about a companies cheaper models being like a "mini" of their more expensive model is B.S. It's just not true. They haven't "learned something new" There's nothing to learn. It's just the facts about the two or three brands you are comparing. REAL FACTS.

The best preamps will have more tubes. The best preamps will have tube rectification. And be dual-mono. And have point to point wiring. And weigh something.

The ET3-SE is a single tube on a PCB with a small power transformer and chip for a volume control. It weighs 13 lbs. for $4,000. They are not alone on this. Preamps are like soft drinks at a restaurant. The food is $8 and has ingredients. The drink is $2.75 and is water and syrup. I'm all ears if anyone can justify to me the prices I see.

Go to Google and use "images" to compare the insides of preamps. You have to do this. Think like an engineer. The $2199 PrimaLuna weighs 37.5lbs, and the $3199 weighs 53lbs. Both are built in a way that none of the brands mentioned build. If you deal in facts, not blustery emotion that "Brand A is expensive so it MUST be better!" you will see what I mean. I have re-tubed over 10,000 amps and preamps in all these years, and I have also supplied many companies with their tubes. I know who's naughty and who's nice.

Hi Pkelly

I have no doubt your ET3SE sounds great. Your question above asked about the quality of the parts used. Valid and important to ask. The PrimaLuna uses audiophile grade Takman resistors and SCR Tinfoil caps made in France, Alps Blue Velvet volume control, and input selection is pretty slick using very nice Japanese relays made by Fujitsu. There are two toroidal power transformers. The tube sockets are mounted to heavy-duty ventilated panel mounts instead of a printed circuit board. In fact there are no PCB's in the entire circuit path. It's wired with Swiss made silver plated oxygen free copper.

When a company uses brand-name parts they are pretty quick to mention it in their literature, I assure you. Because it can triple your build costs, and you want potential buyers to know it.

I understand your dealer telling you to upgrade to a ET5. It's $9500. You have an ET3SE that costs $4000. How do you expect him to react when you ask him about the PrimaLuna at $3199?

I've been told straight out by some dealers: I will sell the more expensive product when PrimaLuna is not expensive enough. The customers needs are secondary to the dealer's wallet. Sad but true.

All PrimaLuna integrated amps are Stereophile Class A rated. The $3399, 65lb DiaLogue Premium is incredible. There is another Class A integrated there costing $8000 that weighs 36 lbs, uses a chip for a volume control, and has a simple PCB where everything is mounted. Somebody here look at both internally and give an opinion. Use Google Images.

Given that, the ET5 is a nice hybrid preamp. $9500. 28lbs. 25dB of gain. The other fellow on this thread named Al seems technically adept and he explained the gain issue. At Upscale Audio we will not warranty vintage tubes going into preamps with super high gain. We will warranty current production Russian tubes as I can send them back for credit.

I understand this stuff and I'm most happy to discuss any aspect of it as long as we are pragmatic and not getting into blustery sweeping comments.

Hola Hiendmuse

You have a very good preamp. Yes Mystere is still happening and there are new designs that will come out. He wants to implement some new ideas on laddered resistor volume controls. Like yours has.

PrimaLuna caught on much faster than predicted, and there was some heavy engineering that went on to meet some goals that we had. It's more work than you would ever believe. And Herman van den Dungen, the owner of Durob Audio, is a little ummmm detail oriented.

One example was when they listened to different fuses. We all agreed on Littlefuse brand type 213, 218, and 219. He has the factory order them, but he was suspicious of their being genuine even though they were in official packing. Didn't matter a hoot. He took pictures of the end cap markings, sent them over here, then got in contact with a Littlefuse Product Engineer. They go back and forth, only to find out yes, they were the genuine article. While this is applaudable, it really slows things down.

So a lot of effort is being thrown at PrimaLuna. And in case you don't know, Herman is the man behind Kiseki phono cartridges. That's quite an undertaking.

Thanks Hiendmuse

I assume that anybody on this thread has also seen the thread about the DiaLogue Premium vs the CJ ET3SE. There is a lot of info there. This thread was about the ProLogue Premium so I'll put this info to explain the difference between ProLogue and the more expensive DiaLogue.

At $2199, the ProLogue Premium has all the things you want in a tube preamps.

Dual mono design with no shared parts, included a huge toroidal power transformer for each channel which is why it weighs in at 37.5 lbs.

It's tube rectified so it's PURE tube with two 5AR4's rectifiers, one for each channel. Point to point wiring. No printed circuit boards in the signal path.

SuperQuiet inputs using high quality Fujitsu Japanese relays for input selection instead of a selector switch which invites noise and will deteriorate over time.

The volume control is an Alps Blue Velvet motorized pot, not a push button chip.

The DiaLogue Premium at $3199 has larger transformers so it weighs 52.9lbs. It uses Swiss made silver plated OFC wiring in the signal path. High end audiophile Takman resistors. SCR Tinfoil caps made in France. One more input and a couple other minor things. The basic DNA is the same.

Both of them have 10-12 dB of gain so they don't have tube problems. The 12AU7 tubes are wired in parallel internally, then to each other. So if one tube goes sideways at 5000 hours the sound will not deteriorate much (smart thinking). I asked them to use 12AU7 tubes because there are more choices in 12AU7's both in current and new old stock than any other tube. NOS 12AX7's are expensive and hard to find now. 6H30's are only made in one factory, and I don't care for the sound of that tube much anyway. NOS 6922's are still around, but not as plentiful. I have 13,000 vintage 12AU7's in stock. It makes them cheap in comparison.