preamp vs. no-preamp

I have talked a lot about this subject in other threads. The inherent problem is that whatever parts ANY CDP is using to control its output/volume is not as good as a the parts in world class preamp that does the same thing.

It's like asking the question as to why should one go with a seperate preamp and amp when an integrated amp does the same thing. Yes I will admit their are world class integrated amps... HOWEVER, a well matched world class amp and preamp will beat a world class integrated amp any day of the week sonically. In this case though, a lot of the reason amp/preamp combo beats integrateds occurs because of isolation issues between low level signals and high level signals.

The problem is that too many CDPs that control volume use a kind of passive preamplification to do this. Basically most of them put out ungodly high outputs at full throttle/volume, and this signal is run through some passive preamplification (usually a type of metal filament technology) that contol it by the .5 db. I used to have a Camelot Uther DAC/digital preamp, and my sound dramatically improved when I moved to an active SF3SE preamp and having the Uther at max output.

KF

Tireguy, I am not going to claim I am always right. And I have not heard your CDP though I have heard AMAZING things about it. And if you have tried all of those preamps, all I can say is WOWSERS! I wish I were so lucky!

Maybe you have a magical kind of synergy between your CDP and your amp? I am not familiar with either piece.

If you want more body weight and a larger soundstage here is what I suggest getting: Virtual Dynamics Nite AC cord and Nite ICs. The combination is pretty frightening... The only thing I have to say about the Nite AC cord is it just is not fair that AC cords can make as big of a difference as it does in any given system. Especially when put on the Amp and Digital Source. It just is not fair.... The IC's are very good... They may not be absolutely neutral (my verdict is still out on them), but they initially impress me a whole heck of a lot.

KF

I just checkout the Jena Labs website and they look interesting. Both Jena Labs and Virtual Dynamics cryogenically treat their cables. This gives them an edge over most cable companies. Maybe one day I will compare the VD Nite with Jena Labs cables. My verdict is still out on the VD IC's (I just sent a long run to VD for retermination), so I am back to my old Nordost QF... However, I would HIGHLY recommend the VD Nite power cords. Do a search here and AA and the only potential negative comment I have found about these VD Nite cords is their steep retail price ($1500, but can be had for nearly 1/3 on the used market).

The guy I bought mine from was a dealer who was unloading all of his VD cables because he could not compete with VD (due to them selling them directly online). Anyway, his opinion was they were the best he has ever heard, and I wholeheartedly agree with him. He had them in his $100k reference system with top of the line Audio Note gear and Nordost Valhalla speaker cables (he thinks the Valhalla are the best speaker cables he has ever heard, he really wants to find something less expensive that comes close or sounds better than the Valhalla). I am not into the Audio Note sound per se, but it is VERY revealing.

One thing about the VD Nite cables (all of them) require ungodly times to break in (500 hours may not be an unreasonable estimate). Many people I think sell these cables before they have not broken them in sufficiently.

Anyway, I would suggest you try an Ayre K-1x preamp with phono, and get yourself into VINYL! The Ayre K-1x maybe one of the best line level and phono preamps ever made combined. There may be slightly (very slightly) better line level preamps out there (for insane $$$ as opposed to the $9k or so the Ayre sells new). There may be slightly (oh so slightly) better SEPARATE phono preamps out there, BUT no preamp on the planet that I have heard or read about (MAYBE the Supratek Cortese, but this has yet to be determined by my ears), has as good of a line level AND phono section. The K-3x (I have it, is pretty darn great), the K-1x is out of this world.

You will find that vinyl with a K-1x will make your digital well... sound... not-so-good. I am an evil man.

Sorry to take this thread off topic. But I must say Ayre preamplification is worth every penny.

KF

Every passive preamp I have tried has cut down on both dynamics/microdynamics and resolution/detail. They all tended to put a veil on the music that was not good at all.

One thing about live music is that it is dynamic. If there is one sin I cannot forgive in a component is lack of dynamics. I can forgive something sounding a little more dynamic than it should in certain areas of the frequency spectrum, but lack of dynamics is a pretty big audio sin...

I will say this Saxo, many tube preamps are not the end all in resolution by a long shot. Many solid state preamps are not either. There are not a whole lot of excellent preamps be them tube or SS made.

I must admit that I have not tried some of the state of the art passives of today. Not too many companies make passive preamps to begin with.... This should tell us something about them. Good ideas tend to be copied in the audio world. If a technology works well people will build it and refine it.

I really WANT to know what Capitole uses to regulate volume. If it's regulation is as good as Tireguy says, they should make a preamp with the same technology (maybe they do, I have not done the research).

KF