Preamp Deal of the Century

Congratulations! I also considered going from the Chardonnay to a line stage "Grange," or the "all out" version he was starting to build as he had time. When I asked about it Mick wrote, "The “all out” version is the 6J5 line stage which I use in the Grange Signature . But you can only use 6J5 tubes, not 6Sn7." Since I didn’t want to start again with tube buying, I decided to go with the 6SN7 Cabernet (it uses the same cabinet as the Chardonnay). It’s currently on the way, still waiting for a plane out of Perth (suggest never using postal express to/from Australia, although much less $$ than DHL/UPS).

Let us know how it works out. I didn’t want a dual, primarily to keep things simple. As I read the discussion on his site, Mick thinks a 6SN7 preamp provides the best sound, so whether it’s with Cab or Grange circuitry, I think we’ll do well. Be interested to hear about the comparison with the 300B.

My 6SN7 Cabernet arrived Monday. Starting to open up nearing 40 hours in. Like the man said, no hurry. 

Agree! In the near future, I may be looking to go up to a 6SN7 Cabernet from the Chardonnay, with the thought to ask Mick to let out all the stops in terms of materials quality. I have no interest in the dual though, as I’m happy with the 6SN7 sound, not feeling the need to play with two options, and have spent more than enough money in arriving at a set of tubes I really like (Treasure Globe, early ‘60’s RCA 6L6GC and Sophia Aqua 274B).

It might depend on which Isoacoustics you’re using, but I found something more, such as AV Roomservice EVP’s, does a better job of iso under my Chardonnay now Cab (MD for the main, HD for the ps). But then mine are stationed on the bottom shelf, with a sensitive studded floor construction underneath. 

Tell us about your system and what tubes and power fuses you are using.

Sophia Electric Aqua 274B, Grant Fidelity Treasure Globes (6SN7) and early 1960s RCA 6L6GC’s. Best combo for my tastes I’ve come across, after trying many others. Everything one likes, plus a touch of warmth, tho the latter ultimately depends on balancing the sound of the system as a whole to one’s tastes.

I’ve never dealt with Andy, but have always been impressed with his site. At least for information, Brent Jessee’s site is very useful too. That said, if I’d known what I eventually learned about the newer Sophia and Treasure Globe tubes, I’d have saved a few $K and lots of time. What I would have lost would have been learning about and listening to lots of older tubes, now all lined up across the brick base of my fire place.

Before I switched to the Treasure Globe’s, available from Rachel at Premium Vacuum tubes (Grant Fidelity), my favorites were the Sylvania 6F8G, the latter type being the original 6SN7 name, and the USAF 596 rectifier. They both do require an adapter from China or from Woo Audio (better but more expensive) though. Btw, there’s an RCA tube date guide online under the search "date codes for RCA-made tubes Ludwell Sibley" (the only thing missing is that for replacement tubes from the mid 1950s on RCA used a YY-WW on the base, where WW referred to the week of the year). Some for other brands’ are available too.

Congrats. It's always satisfying when small changes yield big results. Still, unless Mick dug into his special stock of tubes, there's a lot of room for improvement. And also the fuse and umbilical too. 

@audio123 I’ve been using all Synergistic Research Orange fuses. Recently, SR has gone one better according to the reviews with their Purple version. The past couple of weeks I’ve inserted a couple of Audio Magic Ultimate Premier fuses into my ATC active speakers. Very good. A bit darker sound than the Orange, but very smooth, clear, a more articulate and deeper base, and eeringly quiet. I look forward to comparing them with the Purple, probably when SR has a 3-for-2 sale. Jerry at AM is working a new fuse too, which is how I got mine from a dealer clearing stock. There are pro and user reviews of the Purple and Orange fuses online, including here on Agon.

Now that SR Orange users are replacing them with Purples, the former are appearing on the market at a price level that makes it easier to dip your toe in. Watch HiFi Shark. One thing to know about SR fuses (but not AM) is that they are not built to industry spec, Users learned early on to go one amp value or 25% higher. The problem is initial surges blowing them, which even the horse’s mouth at SR mentioned to me last week. For the Chardonnay, I had a 3.15A blow on start up after merely connecting RCA’s for subwoofers, no power. So I’ve been using a 4A since (small, slow-blow).

On the subject of tweaks, one of the very best I’ve come across is High Fidelity’s NPS-1260 3D contact solution. There’s a thread on Agon about it with several very happy campers, as well as a rave review in Enjoy the Music. The stuff, not cheap, is the real deal.

There’s a “Reference 6SN7” thread on head-fi and a “Shootout of Nos 6sn7 tubes” here on Agon. Another with the same title on What’s Best Forum. Then there are tube dealer charts, as mentioned above.

I have several older 6SN7 and 6F8G pairs available to try out.

@noske You are trolling. Please go away. Unlike many other threads on Agon, this one is for people seriously interested in Supratek products and the experience of using them.

Modicum of sense, I'd say. You might want to read Mick's Guide to buying a preamp discussion to get a sense of what he's up to. If you look around for reviews of his gear, not a whole lot, you might come across some criticism of his "spaghetti" style of point to point wiring. It's something he apparently has cleaned up to some extent, although I haven't looked inside. It doesn't bother me, as he is not alone in point to point wiring among good developers and his gear has a reputation for lasting. The Chardonnay is a good place to start, although if I were having the internal debate again, I'd have better gone with a 6SN7 Cabernet. If you're willing to roll tubes, the stock set can be improved upon significantly. In any case, try  communicating your thinking and desires with Mick, see what he has to say. 

I turned off the high gain switch on my just-received Cabernet for the reasons you mention. Mick’s design does draw a fair amount of current in start up, although the manual says the noise is ok, i.e., won’t damage the speakers. I blew a pair of 3.15A SR fuses because of it after merely adding ICs for subs, without the latter even having AC cords attached.

I don’t have a phono stage, so adjusting the dac’s volume has been able to compensate. Likewise, I am getting a 60 Hz buzz, just loud enough to be heard at my listening position when everything else is off. That led me to limit the gain knob adjustment to the 12 o’clock position, vs. the 4 o’clock I previously had with the Chardonnay, even with the dac at roughly half volume (I have a regenerator). I haven’t yet rechecked all the connections and ports used. That might be the best first step. The Cab manual does admit the possibility of hum and tube noise issues in finding the best gain settings. Ggod hunting in finding the culprit.

The Cabernet manual states:

"A gain adjustment knob is provided in case preamp is used with high gain power amps, if noise is an issue adjust gain until noise disappears." The same applies to the Chardonnay.

Adjusting cables is a separate matter. Power cables that cross should do so as close to 90 degrees as possible. I use those cheap rubber-covered foam isolator blocks one finds on eBay to keep cords from touching, and those and bamboo glass coasters held together with wood spindles (Michael's) to keep cables off the carpet.

@richmon A bit off topic but I wonder if your foam tubes might not unintended effects on the sound. Off hand, two theoretical hypotheses come to mind (although I’m not an expert): 1) the foam acts as an additional insulator that counteracts the developer’s intended design and construction of the cable(s); and 2) on another forum SR’s Ted Denny recently linked a video that speaks to how the fastest moving electrical fields pass mainly outside the cable, not through the wire, which raises the possibility that your tubes are interfering. For example, in the 19th century the first underwater (ocean) telegraph cables that were held together by iron sheaths were quickly deemed a failure because of the latter’s interference. Foam is not iron, obviously, but what evidence do you have that its properties or mere presence don’t interfere to some degree? The video Denny linked, "The Big Misconception About Electricity, is on YouTube:

I’m not sure your presumption is correct. This subject came up because of SR’s Carbon Tuning Disks, which are meant to be placed on power cords and IC’s to deal with the external fields that the video discusses. Here are are a couple of links, but first I should say that in my system they degraded the sound on balance or at best had no effect, depending on placement, so I returned them. It was hinted to me that they work more assuredly on SR cables. There’s a thread about them at WBF, including a few posts by Denny — https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/new-synergistic-research-carbon-tuning-discs.34386/

@noske I don’t get the sense that you took a look first before posting, 

Anyone looking for a better umbilical for their Supratek for a really good price? For the second week in a row, Revelation Audio is running an auction here on Agon for a 0.5m cord. The title is "Upgrade for Cary, Supratek - Revelation Audio Labs umbilical power cable." The idea, however, is to participate but not to win, even if you need a different length. Yes, you read that right. PM and I’ll explain.

This site has extremely sensitive oversight. If you want more info about my last post, you can find me via head-fi.

You mean an email bounced? I haven't heard from him since later April, but as others reported here, their orders just shipped. 

No, other than phoning.

Yes, I've found Mick can forget what's asked of him. He has a tech in the U.S., who I had a private exchange with which some months back but can't find now.

@rbertalotto What you are missing, and what’s going on here, has mostly to do with your ability to read.

Best preamp on earth — Where’d you get that? - Hissing, noisy remote control — Where’d you get that? Doesn’t know how to use XLR connectors — Where’d you get that? Bad solder joints— Where'd you get that? Bad paint— Where’d you get that? A loose tube socket — disappointing but hardly the first time an audio product has a missed defect that needed follow up in the field or back in the factory (do you ever read reviews?). Having a tech in the States to help solve problems, vs. having to return the goods to Australia — What’s your beef with that? 

What led to an aspect of a (special order) Grange getting a little mixed up re rhe case is not clear, but in the context of a one man operation dealing with lots of requests, orders and building, including the rigors of point to point wiring, plus dealing with his hon audio own everyday life — e,g., take a look at where Mick lives — it’s hardly surprising that mistakes are sometimes made. 

Now that we've cleared up a few things, a couple of matters worth mentioning. Yes, hiss is documented as a possibility in the manual(s) -- but not from the remote; it is dependent on the setting of the gain knob (and gain switch). And for those who dare to ask, I found that Mick has the adamant perspective of a diehard, traditional engineer when it comes to umbilicals, which means that he doesn't believe another umbilical could sound better, and thus there's no reason to change. I've got two that do improve things, including one that was built by another guy of similar background who ironically didn't believe that what he was building me could affect the sound (btw, I'd be glad to sell it inexpensively if anyone is interested or wants to give it a try; it's not quite the Revelation, but it is a substantial improvement over the supplied one -- send a PM for more info).