Tube rolling with the Supratek pres can be an expensive road to go down resulting in minor effect if any at all.I sold my phono grade black glass Tungsols 6sn7s when the going price of them reached $300,I more then doubled my money. The only select pairs of 6sn7s I have left in my stash are the formidable and attractive looking Sylvania metal base A and the W vintage. The best results were had with a $20.00 Bendix 6106 rectifier and apair of $8.00 Sylvania 6F6gs n.i.b. I have a dozen metal base rectifiers.Philips MiniWatt,BugalBoy, Mullard. N.O.S. select pairs of Genelex gray glass brown base KT-66. Select pairs of early vintage Telefunken,Seimens and Philips moving coil phono select.Right now in my phono stage Im using a $40.00 n.o.s. pair of PCC88 Telefunkens and a pair of R.C.A. 6c4s with excellant results. I gave all these mentioned above $$$ agood lengthy listen. The Bendix ,Sylvania and the $50 for a matched pair Sovtek Kt-66 have the best effect myself and others have found.....You really want to find out what your system can do? If you play vinyl, look into changing your tonearm wire to Nordost Valhalla and your interconnects to your phono stage with the Nordost new line. Far and away the best move you could make.And for a LOT LESS money then tube rolling with your Supratek pre...... |
Hi Maril555, I'm no expert in this area, I stumbled through this hobby on and off for 30 years....I have not experienced an annoying glare in the midrange while tube rolling.Except while my new tonearm wire was burning in. I wish I had it cooked.....My focus while checking out vintage tubes was the rectifier and the regulators in my Chenin.I found the Bendix rectifier in combination with apair of 6f6gs to add meat to the bone from the lower midrange on down.The same effect can be found with a new pair of Sovtek KT-66s and the Bendix. In the line stage area. It is a waste to spend hundreds on a select pair of 6SN7s Im using a used pair of R.C.A. GTs clear glass. I have many more 6SN7s on hand that I could use..... Going back to the rectifier and regulators.I took Ecclectique knowledgable and expert advise in this area. I believe Ecclectique at the time had a Syrah model. It could very well be that this model of preamp responds to vintage tubes more so then the newer models.I am thrilled that my Chenin does not. |
Good to hear guys! Looking forward to your reports...Pablo ,its breaking them in or burning them in. |
Maril and Opuss,strange problem your having. I do hope you get to the bottom of it..... I have owned a pair of Quad 63s for going on twenty five years.I have had various electronics ,solid state and tube driving them over the years.It took awhile for me to discover these speakers should be in a room where they can breath along with ridid stands to elevate them off the floor.They have a spooky midrange magic that compared to speakers today,many would fall flat on their face. They are ruthless in reveiling anomalies in the midrange.Be it up stream electronics or in a recording. All these years that I have enjoyed them, I have never heard them sing like they do now....never... Partly due to a new room but mostly to a change in wire.Nordost mono filiment silver coated copper in my tone arm and to the phono section of my Chenin...The transformation was significate....The wire Im slowing replacing is Cardas Golden Reference to the amps and speakers. Over the past three years I have tried several differant complete runs of brands of wire. None of them even came close to what this mono filiment wire does. Though it works extremely well in my system ,it may not in yours.However look into it. It could very well be a wire issue. Hopefully it will do the trick.......Ecclectique,Im always interested in what you have to say. |
These comments made of possibly hurting Suprateks reputaion over acouple of problems, are way off. Micks sales are word of mouth,no amount of money will buy you advertising like this.Slowhand ,I hope Mick was appreciative....The preamp that I was set to buy before coming across Slowhands thread was $3000.00 more then the Chenin .I got around to comparing them side by side in my system. The Chenin wiped the floor with it especially comparing the phono stages...... Opuss hopefully you have afew audio dealers close to where you live. Getting complete runs of burnt in wire to try is not an easy thing to do.I had to be force full with some of these sales guys and store owners. |
Slowhand, Yes the rollerblocks set up in the sweet spot under your SCD-1 should be mind blowing good. C.Ds and especially Super audio disks spin at a even higher rates of speed causing vibrations that effect the overall performance of the machine.Finding that sweet spot under that huge SCD-1 will take two people .I found a hardwood stick and block of wood used as a fulcrum to place the rollerblocks and plates a good and safe way. Slowhand for the price of a set of rollerblocks or another S.R.A. platform,you are so close to audio Nirvana.You have Valhalla in your junction box,do carry on with more Nordost Valhalla in your tone arm. And to your phono stage you can use the far less expensive Nordost Frey or Tyr line of interconnects.My experience with having the stock Discovery wire in my old tone arm and junction box along with trying other brands of wire over the years and settling with Cardas Neutral and Golden Reference through out my system.Comparing them to the Nordost wire. No contest. If anything out there that you could do to your system that would be jaw dropping good,this is it...Pablovila looking forward on what you have to say about the Malbecs |
Slowhand,What a brute of a c.d. player the SCD1 is.55 lbs? I bought the 777 shortly after they came on the market back in 2000 and had it modded afew years later.The 777 was my first c.d. player ever. It sure was dark days for vinyl back in the 90s .Have you tried rollerblocks under your SCD1? Put them near the transport,its amazing what they do for a c.d. player.....Last time I checked going prices for certain vintage tubes ,I put mine away in a safer place.Back in the 90s the most expensive vintage vacuum tubes I bought was CRAZY money,around $60.00 for a pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7s.The tube and parts dealer saw me coming. I couldn't tell you what going prices for any of the vintage Western Electric vacuum tubes were going for. Someone mentioned here apair of W.E. 350Bs were $400.00 apair.I think hes wrong,400 for a single tube, if it test new. Tube rolling with vintage vacuum tubes will change the sound of your Supratek pre.Thats for sure. Though certainly not for the better.If you have money to burn on vintage tubes, slow down, this money for sure is better spent in other areas of your system.Have your c.d. player modded and buy some rollerblocks to go with it. Have your tonearm rewired and carry on with the same wire through out your system. Try out some decent a.c. distribution through out your system,all from the same manufacture. Anyone of these steps will have a profound effect. |
Opus,Good to hear.Lets hope that new capacitor change resolves it. That glare sure would of drove me over the bend.Kgturner did you recently put an order in for a Cabarnet Dual or do you have it now? Also,you have had your monos for awhile,anything new to report? Maril555 I understand you have a Cortese and apair of Mondeuse on order. Any word on delivery? |
Hi Kgturner, The info on Micks site for the Cabernet Dual is very interesting.Looking forward to your impressions. |
Pablo and Rick,great to hear you guys like/love your new amps. |
Hi Fiddler,Good to hear from you. I'm interested! What was the cost to redo your Chardonnay with the V-caps? Purchase of and installation. |
Regarding the phonostage in the Chenin.... What do you get for that extra $400.00? I think few here acually know the true measure of Micks entry level phonostage including his other designs.I guess you can say that about most well designed components ect.Check out Slipknot1 system, "Ars Musica". He uses a Chenin with his Walker Proscenium turntable.Im sure if there was any hint of a problem with the Chenin in his system,it would of been gone long ago. As for me,Micks entry level preamp and phonostage is the best so far that I have owned.Hopefully by the end of the year my Chenin will be hooked up to a S.M.E. 20/12.I think only then will I get a clear sense of Micks design. |
Hi Bob,I have the Chenin and use a select pair of E.H. gold pin 6SN7s to very good results,I think the pair were $25.00.Listening to well recorded Jazz L.P.s through my overhauled vintage Quad electrostats,vocals along with acoustic instruments are truly shocking at times.Truth in timbre is what I hear and what I value highly.There are boat loads of vintage 6SN7s in the World,finding a silent operating vintage pair like the Tungsols,you will $PAY$.I had a pair of silent round plate Tungsols which I sold last year on Audiogon.It was pure fluke I ended up with such a quiet pair.Vintage R.C.A. 1940s are also a great 6SN7.Also if you can find a nice "quiet" pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7A or 6SN7W metal and or the black base type.These are also a great! 6SN7 and a very handsome looking vacuum tube at that.Right now my Chenin is tubed up with a Bendix 6106 in the power supply...$20.00,I see the price has gone far beyond that now.The regulator's are apair of 6F6G Sylvania 1930s vintage clear glass,etched base with old round logo on bottle...$8.00 for the pair at a antique radio show.I bought many more 6F6gs new in the box for very little.With this combination of rectifier and regulators listening to Big Band,Hard Bop,Jazz and heavy Rock through my Dynaudio Special 25s,there is added weight,bite and slam from the lower midrange on down that is very well defined over the stock tubes.Horn sections are particularly good.Vocals and music heard through my Quads with these tubes installed are in the room with me I find more so then with stock tubes.The stock tubes are very good in the Chenin and shoulded be dismissed because most are Russian made. My phono section has a pair of Telefunken PCC88 at $40.00 apair new in the box and finally apair of R.C.A. 6C4 also an inexpensive vintage vacuum tube.I have on hand afew select line stage and phono grade tubes from Sylvania,Western Electric, Philips,Telefunken and Siemens that I have collected over the years that would have a dramatic effect in other brands of preamps and phono stages that will respond to $expensive$ vintage tubes other then SupraTek,the Chenin model in my experience anyway. |
Bob,You can have the V-cap upgrade done for the price of a preamp grade pair of 6SN7s....No Tungsol round plates,Western Electric 350Bs used as regulators,Philips metal base gz-34s in your power supply or any other vacuum tube plugged into your Chenin will ever start to come close to the sonic benifits of a acouple of V-caps installed in your Chenin.Micks design simply does not respond enough like many other brands of vacuum tube equiptment do when using select vintage tubes.....You want a significant sonic upgrade to your system for the price of afew vintage vacuum tubes? If you spin vinyl ,have your tonearm wire replaced with Nordost Valhalla or the Nordost Tyr, carry on with it to your phonostage.Once properly burnt in....You won't know what hit you!....Two V-caps and the Nordost wire in your system for abit more then the price of a matched pair of n.o.s. Tungsols and one n.o.s Philips MiniWatt metal base GZ-34.Don't waste your money on rolling tubes,save it for the wire upgrade and V-caps..... |
Sorry Viclondon,can't help out.Hi Slowhand I have seen them advertised in Hi-Fi +,interesting.... |
For anyone interested,6 moons did a reveiw of the Podiumsound speaker including a biography of the inventor builder Shelly Katz.Check it out.... |
Anyone here driving electrostats with Micks new amps,specifically vintage Quads?.... |
Bob....I have a mismatched pair of Tungsol black glass oval plates 1940s vintage that are alittle noisy and one has aloose base you can have for...."FREE"....The Tungsols are free only with a purchase of a set of select preamp and phono grade vacuum tubes that I have on hand that will plug into your Chenin and many other vacuum tube designs. GZ-34 1956 vintage metal base Philips MiniWatt perfect print on glass.Condition New, looks like it was made yesterday.Price $500.00. One pair of Western Electric 350Bs,one with original box,yellow print on bases matched codes Condition New.Price $1400.00.Or apair of 1957 metal base black innerbases EL-34s Philips MiniWatt.With original boxes.Condition New. Price $1100.00 Phonograde CCA pair Siemens gray plate.Condition New .Price $650.00 the pair or Telefunken CCAs Condition slight use test New $550.00....Bob this is the cream of the crop that will work in your Chenin....Bob think about this .In five years these prices will look like a good deal........Or...... You could have the V-cap upgrade done to your Chenin for thousands less and most likely end up being enthraled with your system more so then any set of select vacuum tubes..... |
Hi Tvad,Yes these prices are for real here in North America.I have these mentioned vacuum tubes and I can't get over how much prices have gone through the roof.Forget Flea Bay .Do a search on North American tube sellers,Brent Jesse,Tube World.Tube Depot ect...The seller I deal with mostly is from the Netherlands.He has sold to some of these dealers and is honest as the day is long.Can't say that about the rest I've dealt with on this shore.Anyway regarding...Bob...Just giving him a hard time. |
I'm not selling any tubes,not right now anyway.Looking back I wish I bought more in the 1990s.Yep Tube World,he's selling them.... |
Well maybe I was alittle hasty punching in $1500.00 for the w.e.350bs. I see Tube World has simular to what I have 1950s 350b for $500.00 each.Three years ago Tube Depot advertised a new Philips MiniWatt metal base GZ-34 for $200.00,its $499.00 now.For the exact same vintage,Tube World three years ago advertised them for $225.00.Now $500.00 plus.Preamp and phonograde e88cc/6922 and ccas,they sure are expensive in North America.....Bob If you pay the shipping $8.00 $10.00 I will "GIVE" you some very good vintage vacuum tubes to try in your Chenin.Shoot me an e-mail and we will go from there..... |
Slowhand,Baranyi how was the rocky mountain audio fest? |
Slowhand,Just tuned in after my last post here.I'm going to try my best to make it next year.It would be great to meet some of you guys.With Mick attending next years show I don't imagine he will want to ship his amps and pres back to The Land Down Under.Hmmm? a new pair of mono amps. Too bad about the Podium speakers,makes you wonder about the reveiw at 6 Moons.Anyway Slowhand can you tell us more about the show? what was the hight light for you? |
Clipsal,Iv'e been using the Bendix 6106 in my power supply for my Chenin going on three years.It's a great inexpensive rectifier that I found works just as good or better then the famed Philips MiniWatt metal base gz-34.To be safe I would shoot Mick an e-mail about using the 6106 in your Cabernet Dual... |
Mrjstart, Heres one testimonial of Micks phonostage and preamp you should read through.
Slipknot,ARS Musica
Joe's Chenin has kept up with his new system.
I find it truly remarkable.
I'm sure if there was any hint of a problem with his Chenin in this incredible system,
Joe would of dumped it long ago.
Regarding changing vacuum tubes in your preamp to vintage select brands.
I believe the older models of Micks amps and pres responded favorably to rolling tubes.Ask the man himself.
If you have the money to spend on Western Electric 350Bs,Philips MininWatt metal base EL-34s,Philips MiniWatt metal base GZ-34,Tungsol round plate 6sn7s and early CCas.
Your in for a huge cash outlay.
Money better spent elsewhere in your system like a set of Symposium roller blocks under your c.d. player.
You will know when you found the sweet spot under your player using these.The results are incredible.
Silent Running Audio make equiptment platforms that will make a HUGE difference under your front end and other components.
Slowhand highly recomends these platforms.I have since heard the results in a friends system.
Nothing sutle about them at all.
My first S.R.A. platform will be used under a new turntable purchase.
Finite-Elemente equiptment stands and feet.
Another company FOR SURE worth looking into.
I use the Cerabase as feet under my maple equiptment stands and cerapucs under my Nordost Thor.
No dought about it,they work.
A V-Cap. upgrade to your preamp.
Pay attention to wires throughout your system,keep with the same brand.That means a.c. cords through to speaker wire.
Over the years Roy Gregory editor of Hi-Fi+ magazine strongly recommends adhering to this.
I put to practice what Roy been saying all these years from the a.c. recepticals through to my speakers including my tonearm.
My new tonearm and table will be rewired.
For those that spin vinyl.
Lloyd Walkers enzyme base Prelude record cleaning solution is truly remarkable and is everything he says it will do.
Over 25 years of using various brands of record cleaning solutions this is many times more effective.
I kid you not ,A cleaned record with this stuff is like a component upgrade.
Also check out WalkerAudio.com
Click on Fine Tuning your turntable.
Borrow to try first in your system if you can.
The type 3 Symposium roller blocks have shocking good results under a c.d. player.
Most of what I suggested would cost far less with FAR greater sonic results then filling up your preamp with select vintage vacuum tubes....Have fun |
V21,
If you locate a tube vender that has some Bendix 6106,
request a 1950s vintage with matched sides.This tube was made into the 1970s.
A quick way to discribe a Bendix 6106 is log onto Tube World.com
Type in Bendix 6106 on their page,they will have a close up picture of a Joint Army and Navy [JAN] 50s vintage.
Yes the 6F6g is used by afew Supratek preamp owners including myself. |
V21,
If no one here has an extra Bendix 6106 they are willing to part with.
Member Baranyi just bought one from Vintage Tube Services.
The owner Andy likes to be contacted by telephone however.
616-454-3467.I believe he is in Central Time Zone.
Or you could check with a tube vender here on Audiogon by the name of Sam1104 including some others.
You want to buy the 1950s vintage 6106.This tube was one of many used in the American missle defence sheild during this period of history.
A VERY robust tube.
Also they take along time to burn in.
Have patience.
At some point if you wanted to try apair of 6F6gs to go along with the Bendix.You should have no trouble finding any in the U.K.
The 6f6g is an old vacuum tube design and was used in radios and Juke boxes begining in the early 1930s right through to use in the audio sections of some amps and T.V.s.
|
V21, You want the G only
6F6g |
All the best to you and your family Mick...
Cheers
Mark |
Abe, You been busy!
Interesting path your going down.
Markvetnz,
Could be the original tubes were getting alittle tired and with a fresh pair your pre came back to life.
Yep the ECC-33s in another design other then Supratek would certainly raise your eyebrows.
I also tried them in my Chenin afew years ago,HO hum.
I had one really quiet pair of TungSol black glass oval plates which I used for a short while then sold, couldnt resist the going price.
Tried Western Electric 350Bs and metal base EL-34s, better kept for an investment also tried some early 1960s CCAs in the phonostage, save your money if your thinking of buying tubes like these.
If you bought tubes like these years ago and still have them sitting in a drawer or in a closet.
Put them in a safe....
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Ivarmorten,
A good long time for a early production GZ-34,years as a matter of fact.
One thing,don't switch your preamp and system on for a short period of time then shut it down.
This will shorten the life of your tubes.
Plan on listening for a while. |
Hi Abe,
Sorry ,I ment to get back sooner,forgot...Age
The Cunningham 45s did not test well at all,however I do have apair of RCA 45 Radiotron black plates later vintage that are used though test fine. Is $20.00 each too much?
Crazy thing I have a dozen or so 1920s vintage 201A and 301a Cunninghams that came with the bunch that all but one test great.
I ment to ask you ,how does your Haggerman phonostage compare to your Chenin? |
Is shipping and insurance included?... |
Maril
Correct if I'm wrong, regarding the "hype" of this six year old thread.
Are you saying you were suckered in, or maybe hypnotized by the hype and bought a Cortese preamp then later put an order in for Supratek amps?
Your comment here of the Nick Dosi preamp and Cortese preamp of 11-24-07 reveals a totally differant story and attitude.
I for one would not of waited a year before bringing an issue like this up for all to read.
However it's not clear what final arrangement Mick made with you over these damaged amps.
Did you save any of Micks e-mails for us to read? |
There is a Chenin just listed today for sale finished in chrome and piano black. |
