Clipsal, If it is midrange magic you want from a 6SN7GT, then you should try the RCA 6SN7GT/VT-231 grey-glass. |
Amandarae - The 6V6 can be used as the regulator in the supratek preamps. I've never done it myself, but I'm told they don't sound good. Let us know what you think if you should try it. |
4khe - in addition to the recommendations of amandarae make sure that your balance knob isn't set hard to right. then go swap interconnects between left and right channels. lastly fidget with the interconnect barrels on the input jacks, maybe the rca center pin isn't making a good connections. are you sure the problem is with the inputs and not the outputs? |
any IEC power cord will do in the short term. i would definately plan on upgrading the power cord in the future. there isn't much need to go hog-wild and get a $2k power cord. |
Finally got to put the Cabernet in my system tonight. These are my initial impressions. My Cabernet uses the WE 101D. The WE 101D has a UV-4 base that requires different sockets than the TJ 101D (UX-4 base) and the sockets are not easy to come by. For initial listening I took the same tubes I had in my Sauvignon and dropped them into the Cabernet with the addition of the WE 101D. My Sauvignon is the older version without the 12b4a only has about 12db of gain.
Initially when I recieved the Cabernet from Mick the RCA inputs and outputs would not work with my interconnects which have WBT TopLine RCA connectors. To get any sound at all from either channel I had to hold the interconnects in the jacks just so and if I released the IC's the system went quiet. Mick replaced the RCA inputs/outputs and the problem was corrected. I had no such problem with my Sauvignon which uses different RCA jacks.
The Cabernet improves upon the Sauvignon in several areas. The Cabernet seems faster and more intimate. It has even greater heft and slam in the bass department. The tonality is purer across the band and the transparency is improved in the midrange. Otherwise the Cabernet has the same general SupraTek 'signature' sound as the other pramps in the lineup.
When I initially turned on the Cabernet I noticed the slightest hum in my system from the preamp. The hum is extremely low level and not even noticeable from across the room. I mention it only because there is no noise at all with the Sauvignon.
To make an analogy in fine-tuning between the Cabernet and Sauvignon, I liken the Sauvignon to a road rally car and the Cabernet to a GTP endurance racer. This is probably because the Cabernet uses a DHT triode which are normally more sensitive to power supply. So in the Cabernet I think most will find that the selection of regulator and rectifier has even more impact on the sound.
Note that the DHT's tend to be more microphonic than most tubes. More so than say the Sylvania VT-231 and Ken Rad VT-231. In my own system my WE 101D are not noticeably microphonic so don't assume that all 101D will be microphonic.
So far, the Cabernet with the WE 101D is a definite improvement in my system and given my personal tastes. In my journey I have come to the opinion that thare is no such thing as "the finest...", "the best...", etc. Because as components and systems become more resolving, system synergy and personal preferences become an increasing factor. Surely though the Cabernet is worthy of the consideration of anyone exploring possibilities among the finer preamps in the world. |
Cello - There is no sub for the 6C45. I think Sovtek and Electroharmonix are the brandname resellers. I don't know who actually manufactures the 6C45 but there could be more than one, since Sovtek and Electroharmonix sell tubes from several manufacturers. By all accounts the 6C45 is a very special tube. BAT and Joule use it, in addition to SupraTek. |
Cello
Try these,
http://www.thetubestore.com/sovtekpreamp.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/triodeel/6hec69e8.html
http://store.electron-valve.com/so-6c45pi.html |
Mlkiz - Chill out. If you keep it up you'll make a mountain out of an anthill and ahve no one to blame but yourself. Mick will make it right. Dozens of others on this thread are testament to that. |
Mondie - Keep in mind that I use WE 101D's instead of TJ 101D's. They are not interchangeable because there require different tube sockets. The cabernet is slightly fuller than the sauvignon. Beginning in the lower midrange and continuing on down. There is pronounced bass response from about 90hz on down. It is not obnoxious but it is noticeable. I have excised this from my system through other means. I prefer to focus on the midrange.
One area where the cabernet improves on the sauvignon is inner detail and neuance, esp in midrange and upper bass.
The cabernet is surprisingly quiet for a design using DHT tubes. There is a little hum evident when I first power on the preamp, but that is all. There is a capacitor discharge when you turn off the preamp. This discharge isn't present in my sauvignon. People with high-effiency systems will need to be careful.
No tube-rolling yet. I am still getting used to it. I've only put a couple hundred hours on it. The tube compliment I use is the same as before with the WE 101D's added. Although I am happy with the 6L6WGA, there are a couple of tubes I want to try as regulators. One of those is the GEC KT-66. I am also going to pop in the RCA 6SN7GT/VT-231 grey-glass. |
i intended to use WE 101D's all along. however, i did not know that they were incompatible with the sockets used by the tj 101d's. we 101d's use uv-4 sockets. they are hard to find and normally expensive when you do. there are a very few current production uv-4 sockets. some of the best are pulls from old western electric amps. i supplied Mick with the sockets that are used in my cabernet. these sockets normally sell for $200-300 ea on ebay. but i managed to picked up some old WE bakelite sockets in excellent condition from a local tube collector.
i have never listened to the tj 101d's but by reputation the we 101d's are said to be superior. the tj's are based upon the WE tubes. the WE 101D's were manufactured under license in Canada, Australia, and I believe the UK also. So there are a few working substitutes to be had. I know in Australia they were manufactured as the STC 4101D. There are a few other variant model numbers as well but they are all basically the same tube.
there are a very few interesting posts on AA by Dowdy Lama and Gordon Rankin regarding the WE 101D and TJ 101D. Search through all forums. |
5 amps for a preamp! that is freakin huge. the Sim Audio W5 ships with a 6 amp fuse. |
If your preamp is non-standard then the case has to be special made and takes longer to fill the order. Happened with both my preamps. |
Ecclectique - The 6J5 may cost less and may even sound better than the 6SN7. But it is not as plentiful. When I ordered my Cabernet I asked Mick to wire it for the 6SN7 instead of the 6J5 because I already had a large number of 6SN7. |
Well you know many of the Shunyata line do color the presentation. Especially the Shunyata cords with that pixie dust built in. Come to think of it Shunyata even markets their cords in terms of their degree of coloration. |
Sorlowski. to drive the thiels you will want a high-current SS amp. Something that doubles down into a 2 ohm load. Personally, for that speaker I think a high damping factor works best. The Parasound amp Slowhand mentioned will work. I use the Sim Audio W-5 to drive my Thiels. Other possibilities include Plinius, Pass Labs, and Blue Circle.
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Aurel: FWIW, the Cabernet that I have appears to be capacitor coupled on the output stage instead of transformer coupled like the cortese/chenin. There are at least 2 large capacitors in it. Have to be careful when turning it off because of the caps discharge. Turn off the power amp first, but this is recommended for all high-end gear anyway. No one that I am aware of has had their gear damaged by their supratek preamps. My Cabernet has been powered on continuosly (24/7)for 6 weeks with nothing more that an occaisonal (couple times a day) low-level tic or pop from a tube, which is normal in tube gear. I doubt a Supratek preamp would pose a threat to your existing equipment...but you do seem rather risk averse. Might want to email Mick about your concerns. |
Jay461: swap signal tubes left-right to see of the crackle follows the tubes. Do the same with the regulator tubes, just to be sure. It really sounds like the signal tubes to me. |
Dsiggia: Might try rolling the regulators and rectifiers also. The tung-sol 5881 is ok, but you can do better. Might want to try the 6f6g, kt-66, or 6l6g. You should give the ken-rad 6sn7gt a try also. |
Arkio - Ditto on mating Supratek preamps with the Sim Audio Moon W5. It is an excellent match with both my Sauvignon and Cabernet. I wish you many enjoyable hours of listening. |
Ecclectique - I think Mick uses the TJ-PX4 in the latest iteration of the cabernet. It uses UX-4 sockets instead of B4 sockets that the 'real' PX4 uses. That is a very important consideration for anyone wanting to purchase the Cabernet and tube roll the NOS PX4's in it, cause it isn't going to happen. The sockets are incompatible. |
Thf - I have both Sauvignon and Cabernet. The Sauvignon is very good, nothing wrong with it at all. The Cabernet just conveys the essence of the music so much better than the Sauvignon. Speed, neuance, tone, and dynamic contrasts are all better in the Cabernet. The only downside of the Cabernet might be that you hear a tad more tube noise, but it is still very quiet. It has the same Supratek 'house' sound, detailed and transparent but not sacrificing musicality. On my cabernet tonal balance is notably fuller than the Sauvignon but not fat.
As bwhite said the Chardonnay sounds immature and the Sauvignon sounds disiplined. Comparitively speaking the Sauvignon sounds like a recording and the Cabernet sounds alive and vibrant.
Confirm my assisment with Mick becuase he changes his design and tube compliment evolve slightly as time goes on. My Sauvignon is one of the earlier models and my Cabernet uses the WE101D instead of the TJ101D or TJPX4.
Before the cabernet I used to haunt audio websites and high-end boutiques like I was a restless ghost because I was always looking for something better. Not anymore, I am enjoying the music. |
Bwhite: Did you try any of the Shunyata, BMI Shark, or Acoustic Zen with the Supratek? I have the Shunyata Taipan (alpha, i think) on all my amp/preamp. Used to have the original Taipan on the amp and preamp but it whitened the tone a bit. I don't consider either of the Taipan neutral, it errs on the transparent/detailed end of the spectrum. |
Jay461 - As swampwalker said you are having problems with tube microphonics. By their nature all tubes are microphonic to some degree. Some more so than others. There are a lot of things to do. You should replace the tubes till you get a more acceptable pair. You can try isolating your preamp. I use a combination of brightstar airmass and symposium rollerblocks and hal-o tube dampers. There are many other isolation products out there also. Some use small innertubes from children's bikes. Under-inflated works better than fully-inflated. Considering the prices of some of these you should probably try the innertubes first to see if it helps. You also might want to consider the placement of you system rack relative to your speakers. |
Braro - "grain" is normally something associated only with solid-state designs. Grainy is considered an escalated form of dryness. For example, Bryston gear is dry but Supratek is not. It is quite possible to get some glare with the stock tubes though.
http://stereophile.com/reference/50/index3.html
But anyway, I would highly recommend that you roll the 6sn7's. Amandarae, Ecclectique, Bwhite and too many others have made excellent recommendations on 6sn7's. You should search their notes. |
Ongkaku - RE: the stock TJ PX4 tubes are really really transparent!
Thats really good news because there are no tube rolling alternatives for that tube.
I am glad that you are pleased. Tell us about your listening experience when you get the chance. I know you'd rather be listening than typing.
FWIW - someone told me that Mick would build the cabernet with the we300b if requested. But I am certain you would have to buy the tubes beforehand and ship them to Mick before he started on the order. In a lot of ways the we300b would be a really good tube to work with. There is a good supply of NOS tubes, and the UX4 socket is easy to get also. Westrex is currently manufacturing the we300b using the old western electric facilities. The we300b is a very highly regarded tube. The only downside is they are expensive. |
Ongkaku - IMO 'no preamp'/passive preamp is the best reference for determining neutrality and transparency of a component. Your findings are similar to mine. This is the big reason I haven't replaced the volume pot or otherwise modded my supratek. For me and my system I am not convinced that the difference will be worth it. But I am very happy for those who replaced the volume pot and were pleased with the result. |
I haven't seen anyone comment on the 6moons review of the sauvignon yet. So this is just to let everyone know where it is.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/supratek2/sauvignon.html |
Is it safe to assume that it (DAC) will have a tube output stage? I wonder if the powersupply will be tubed also. I would like a SS DAC, maybe with no opamps on the output stage. |
Didn't Waltersalas own the First Sound PD2 before he bought his Syrah? Don't remember if he had them both at the same time but he did mention his preference for the Syrah. Hopfefully he will read this and speak up. |
Fiddler - where did you purchase the Mundorf Silver Supremes? Were the cap values clearly indicated on the caps or did you have to get that info from Mick? Thanks. |
Question about the WE 350B used as a regulator in Supratek preamps. A lot of people have commented on improved base response. I am curious to know if anyone has tried to measure the enhanced freq response. I particular would that be the lowest octave from 20-40hz, the middle octave from 40-80hz, or the upper octave from 80-160hz. Most pop, jazz and rock doesn't contain much below 40hz except for ambient venue noise and note decay. Guitar goes roughly from 80-980hz. Kettle drums reproduce the 80-160hz range. Acoustic and electric bass guitar and the harp are the only string instruments I can think of that are present in the 40-80hz octave.
Anyway if any WE350B users can give me feedback i'd appreciate it greatly. |
Whatever happened to Asa on this thread? Hope his health is good and that he is enjoying the music. |
It could still be another month till you get the preamp. After he finishes everything Mick will burn-in the preamp for almost a week before sending it to you. During this time Mick may also make adjustments to the pre if the sound isn't quiet to his liking. Patience young Alma, patience. |
The height of the powersupply will vary with the tubes you put in it. Without tubes it is 3". A gz33 or gz37 can be about 5" tall. Also leave room for isolation devices. So 12" between racks should do it. The preamp is a little under 9" tall from bottom of the the rubber supports to the top of the domes. I doubt seriously that any tube will ever clear the top of the domes. But consideration should be left for isolation devices especially if you have overly microphonic tubes. |
Mondie - I had a similar problem with my Cabernet. One channel would shutdown after 10 minutes of playing. It turned out to be a bad regulator tube. I replaced the tube and all has been good since. 10 minutes would be about the amount of time it would take a tube to warm up. |
neither can we. tell us what you think of it after a few days. |
Mhu - i'm really glad you like the cabernet so much. i would just leave it on and playing at low levels so you can rack up the burn-in time quickly. i got about 4500 hours on my cabernet and it sings like you wouldn't believe.
everyone - i am tweaking the system a bit. wrapping up a home audition of a dac. when i put my EVS dac back in the system i decided to place some EVS step attentuators on the outputs. don't know about others but my system is high-gain and i could never get the supratek volume above 30%. so i attentuated the source signal to the point that i could use most of the volume on the supratek. it just allows me to hear more of the cabernet in the system and less of the dac's outputs. boy is it ever smokin good now. this calls for some espolon anejo and an ashton vsg.
also noticed now that i can turn up the volume on the supratek that i can hear rfi from the supratek remote bleeding through the system. of course this only happens when i'm actually using the remote. so it isn't a cause for alarm just curiosity. |
if you ask for it mick can also put a step attentuator on the inputs of the supratek to attentuate the incoming source signal. i have one on mine but never used it because i thought it was a gain attentuator. |
Mondie - 2 questions. how did the cabernet sound when you placed the bent between the source and cabernet and used the bent to attentuate the source signal instead of the cabernet's built-in attentuator? did you ever get around to rolling tubes in the cabernet?
normally it is a good thing when a component does not leave an identified signature on the music. unless i am misreading your last post it sounds like like system matching was a problem. |
Slowhand - the 5y3 is a directly-heated full-wave rectifier. like all directly-heated recitifier it doesn't have a slow startup. this means that every time you power on the preamp you are stripping the cathodes. it damages your tubes and i believe the preamp's capacitors also. the sound you describe is typical of directly-heated recitifiers. most people prefer the sound of directly-heated recitifiers. if you choose to continue using it i wouldn't power the preamp down. |
Ethifi - picture the signal your speakers recieve as a 3-way pie chart composed of source signal, preamp signal, poweramp signal. the higher you are able to turn up the volume on the preamp then the more you hear of the preamp and the less you hear of your source and poweramp (relatively speaking). whether this will sound better or not is a matter of system synergy and listner preference. |
Ecclectique - I don't have the grange. My cabernet doesn't use the px4 or 300b. But comparing the linestage section between the Mick's upper and mid-line preamps I am certain that the grange will easily best the cortese. Mick can easily put the 6j5 in place of the 6sn7 if that is what you prefer. Basically all the nos tubes you currently use for the cortese can also be used in the grange with the addition of the px4 or 300b.
I have spent some time with some very fine systems including one all-tube system with vinyl front-end and total system cost exceeding $200k USD. My humble system with a SS poweramp has more tone than any system that I have ever heard including the one I just mentioned. The cabernet is what puts me over the top. |
Amandarae - I tried out the Sylvania 6sn7W short-bottle with black bakelite base in my Sauvignon a couple years ago. To the best of my recollection the bass was big and kind of tubby. The upper midrange and teble were closed in. I don't have any lasting impessions of the midrange. |
Lugnut - the preferred tube compliment will vary with your tastes. I don't recall ever noticing a recurring full tube compliment. There are definately some individual tube positions where some consensus has developed. Why don't you give us an idea what kind of sound you are looking for.
Try Hal-O tube dampers if you have issues with microphonic tubes. |
The GZ33 and GZ37 are notably fuller sounding than the GZ34 or 6106. I did not find either rectifier to be muddy or lacking in dynamics or clarity while they were in my cabernet. Of all the rectifiers in my system the metal-base GZ34 was best when judged by the articulation of the notes and preservation of detail and harmonics. I didn't give any consideration to freq response or tonal balance in making my personal selection. All of the rectifiers sounded good or acceptable in my system but the metal-base GZ34 was a standout. |
Musicubed - there is someone else in this thread that went from a Supratek to the Manley. Do a search in Agon for Supratek and Manley. |
I searched through the threads and found that Snook2 was the other agon member that preferred the Steelhead to the Syrah. I cannot comment on the comparison myself but to note that the Syrah and Chardonnay are no Cabernet. From my experience the Supratek linestages have been very quiet. The Sauvignon produced no hum at all. The Cabernet produces only the barest amount of hum when the volume is opened up all the way. Even then it is still quieter than the kitchen refrigerator and my music server.
If I read the recent posts correctly it looks like the hum has been from the phono stage portion of the Supratek preamps. |
I saw the thread on the used Merlots. Seemed that the buyer's problem and comments should have been directed towards the seller. Instead the 2nd-hand buyer seemed intent on trying to get a freebie from the builder. I've got 2 Supratek preamps and I'm not able to relate any issues with build quality. |
Dig Mino. I really like "Petit Prince" and "Moun Madnina". |
I've had numerous rectifiers in my sauvignon and cabernet. They include the 6106, Sylvannia 5a45, Mullard GZ33, Mullard GZ37, and the Mullard/Amperex metal-base GZ34. The Mullard/Amperex metal-base GZ34 is by far the best in my preamp. The improvements have been in the areas of reduced noise, longer note sustain/decay and to a lesser degree better harmonics which has increased the timbre. I've had my GZ34 in the system for about 5 years and my system is always powered on and playing.
From what I recall about the GZ33 and GZ37 specs the heater current is a good deal more than the GZ34. I think that anyone rolling regulators or rectifiers in the suprateks should consider the impact of one upon the other. Some of the larger regulator tubes place their own demand upon the power supply. |
