Preamp Deal of the Century

Mamba is a dealer for these BV things. He has spammed a few forums over the past few days. I do not think this is an acceptable use of the Audiogon forums. Guess I'll email the powers that be.

Tonight I listened to the Syrah's phono stage for the first time - on a friends system. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

I just emailed Mick to find out about getting a pre with a phono stage - and how long it will take! I have got to have that sound!! and fast!!

Jpms, While I am sure that Mick can complete the modifications you've requested, I think you'll have better results with a stock unit. While many of the mods seem minor, they can impact the original design and impart negative side effects.

In all honesty, I would especially stay away from having Mick do XLR connectors on your preamp. The circuit was designed specifically for single ended operation not a balanced signal. Mick tried this on two of my preamps and the results were not good - at all. A local technician told me it would likely cost $500 to trace the problems and fix. Mick charged me $50 for the option, so.. I didn't feel it was fair to have the problem fixed at Micks expense. On my preamp, I have the wrong end (Mick used the Input connectors as the output) and connected some extra transformers for the balancing of the signal. This is the second preamp that *I* have had that he did this on. On the second one, he wanted to fix the problem but then made the same mistake. Oops. Using the XLR's causes my preamp to make huge loud noises when switched to XLR.

While I am rather pissed off about the XLR "issues" I have had, I think that Mick's design is one of the best in the world. The sound is spectacular from a well built unit and quite frankly will by itself transform a system.

Just settle for RCA. Its very good. While very snug and nice to use, balanced connectors are over-rated unless you're running VERY long lengths of cable. If your amplifier only has balanced inputs and is a "fully balanced" design you might want to think twice about attempting to use the Supratek SINGLE ENDED DESIGN with that amp. Even if the Supratek has XLR connections - that does not mean its a balanced signal. In this case, I think you would lose performance with a single ended preamp.

Biamping is possible with a stock Cortese or Syrah because they have two sets of outputs. I am sure Mick could put three without a glitch though.

The extra power supply connection on the preamp shouldn't be a problem but you might want to seriously re-think buying a Cortese line stage only. His phono is even better than the line stage and its a pain in the butt to have him upgrade. I'm going through this now myself.

When I originally purchased my preamp, I didn't think I'd get into vinyl. Now... I've tasted what it sounds like in a high end system and its so good that IMHO, you would be better off asking Mick to remove the line stage and just give you the PHONO - get rid of digital all together!! I am kidding of course but the extra 1,500 for the phono at time of purchase will save you $$$$ in the long run for shipping / duty fees, time, etc. Something to think about.

The TMC cables are a pain to deal with. They sound "okay" but not fantastic. They will save you a lot of money but are so stiff that it makes them difficult to work with. When you read about them being stiff and imagine something in your head based on your past experience with what you think to be stiff cables... take that thought, and then multiply that by two. They are that stiff... In fact, if I move them, they will push my Supratek right out of the rack and onto the floor.

Rmml... That is great to know. Looks like Mick has managed to fix some of the earlier issues concerning variations on the original design. That is outstanding! Mick is making improvements to his design and processes - this is a good thing for all of us.

T bone - the remote operates smoothly. Mick uses an Alps pot for the remote controlled preamps.

I fully recommend against having your preamp customized - beyond the remote.

Most every "option" I asked for had a problem. My first Chardonnay preamp was a a dog - Mick realized this and replaced it.

Options I asked for:

A single chassis version. - Mick tried and then 1/2 way through couldn't do it.

XLR outputs - Mick used the wrong connectors and a makeshift (engineered on the fly) transformer output that did nothing but make LOUD hum.

Theater by-pass. After explaing to Mick how this should work, he came up with his own solution and the results were less than optimal. To date, I don't know if the feature works or doesn't.

Remote. Mine increases in volume when you press the down button and lowers with the up button. Silly and quirky but annoying none-the-less.

Subwoofer output - works great but its a standard feature if you consider the fact that Supratek's come with two sets of outputs - one can be used for a sub.

Asa - phono is astonishing and I don't even have the Syrah phono stage (yet). Simply using a Black Cube into my Chardonnay, I've acheived sonics that surpass all previous attempts at making digital sound "good". I haven't listened to a CD for about 6 weeks now and don't plan to. High end digital is a bit of a joke.

Mick plans to give me 100% trade in value for my Chardonnay when upgrading to the Syrah. That's fair :) 3 or 4 month wait though... Argh! So, I'm considering using a Walker Reference phono into the Chardonnay to see what that does - best of both worlds perhaps? Who knows... The Black Cube/Chardonnay is great as is and certainly kills other one box pre/phono units available, I'm sure the Syrah is better but I have a feeling that as long as the Supratek is in there somewhere, the magic will be there too.

Twl - I am in full agreement about analog. I always thought if I threw enough money at it, I could make digital sound "right" and truth is (as I've discovered), my expectations were not realistic - in the least. Analog is right - out of the box.

Asa, you might be right about the Syrah phono stage being heads and shoulders above most and not far from even the very best. However, when I first began my analog lust - I compared the Syrah phono to a Michelle Dichrono feeding the Syrah's line stage and the sound was magical both ways. It was tough call which was better - both configurations had merrit (added liquidity going direct to Syrah Phono and blacker background with the Dichrono into Syrah line stage). Truthfully, I would be happy with either setup but I'm thinking the Supratek Grange will suit me best!!

Hi Asa, Well... for the past several months I've been all over the map with audio. The introduction of a turntable has been very, very interesting... In fact, after owning many of the top digital players, I no longer have a CD player at all and I am totally 100% okay with it. I was fooling myself with digital, throwing as much money at it as possible with cords, interconnects, etc. With the turntable, it took 3 seconds to realize how wasteful the pursuit of digital perfection truly was.

That said, I still have my Chardonnay and using a simple Black Cube phono stage into the Chardonnay with a Linn LP12 & Shelter 901 - it beats ANY CD player I have ever listened to by an enormous margin.

I am ordering a Cortese from Mick in the next few days and building a custom Teres.

Asa, He went all analog too! :) We both have 100% separate home theater systems and in cases where we need to play a CD, we just pop it into the DVD player.

Analog has been such a revelation for me that I hardly have time to post to Audiogon anymore! Go figure.

Tok20000 - you and I have talked about this so YOU know I am still on that analog high baby!! However I presume that eventually I will come down and get back into digital - in one way or another. I remember having a lot of fun with digital - messing with several interconnects and PC combos. Truth is without all the remote features of a CD player, its a tedious process to audition analog setups - and not much fun from a "shape your sound" stand point.

My big gripe with digital right now is that there is just so much missing on a CD. Yes... there are great recordings and Yes.. there are fantastic players but... The CD itself is the problem. I find that no powercord can replace the atmosphere lost in a recording when it is compressed to fit a CD.

As you go up the chain of great CD players, you'll find that each is much the same as a digital effects processor and as a result has its own sonic signature. Tounge in cheek, I guess it wont be long before Sony has a button that switches their gear between the "Levinson effect", "Krell effect", "Conrad Johnson effect" or Audio Note effect.... or even 37,000 MBL Effects. :)

Digital is an illusion.

Jazzdude, it should only take a day or two to clear customs. In my experience FedEx occasionally requires a few forms to be filled out for international delivery. Perhaps you should contact FedEx and see what's going on.

Also - they have been known to refund shipping costs AND waive the duties when this type of error occurs.

Streetdaddy... Check out www.acousticsounds.com and you'll find some great "new" and re-release LPs.

What type of music do you like?

Whether it be line or phono, I've listened to Croft and I'd have to say that Eminents is exaggerating profusely.

Also... This Eminents fellow is a Croft dealer! Isn't it great when dealers make claims like this in the discussion forums?

see ad:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1053570003&2&3&4&

I no longer use line conditioners of any type. I found that conditioners cast their signature over the entire system - even into components which do not benefit from the conditioner. Upon extensive auditioning with various power cords and conditioners, I found that the conditioners only really benefited digital components. It seemed silly having one component plugged into a conditioner - given that the conditioners had multiple outlets.

For me, the best results were obtained by using various power cords - specifically chosen for each component - plugged into dedicated outlets. This allowed me to tune the system with far better results - and greater precision -than by simply using a power conditioner.

The Supratek signature can be tuned with either device (conditioners or cords) however in my system I haven't been able to find a robust cord which ads improvement without a negative side effect. For example, if my system has any more bass, it would be more than what seems accurate or appropriate. Many of the PC's I've tried on the Supratek have increased the "slam" of the bass dramatically and I find this puts the bass out of proportion with the rest of the music.

There is a point when a system becomes very difficult to balance... adding positive influence without taking or distracting.

Currently, I use a Bybee pro power cord with my Supratek because I found it to have little or no side effects.

Please everyone - don't take what I wrote the wrong way. I am not against power "conditioners" or power "filters". I think they are the most elegant solution for people who need multiple outlets and do not have the luxury of multiple dedicated wall receptacles. In fact, in those cases, these conditioners/filters are a necessity.

That said, I find that the conditioners/filters do have a sonic signature. I do not find that the signature filters out some of the music, I just feel that most of these filters/conditioners do not always jive with every component in a given system. For me & my taste, the conditioners/filters sounded best with only with digital components. In fact, many of these filter/conditioner products are considered "current limiting" (some aren't) and its recommended that amps not be connected to them for best results. I found that amps sounded best when plugged directly to the wall.

My preamp sounded better not plugged into a conditioners.

I felt kind of silly owning a multi-outlet conditioner with only one component plugged into it.

Unique power cords for each component made me feel less silly and I feel I got better results - but required many wall outlets.

Now.. Balanced power is a totally different (I've never used a BPT device) and I wouldn't consider those the same as the filter/conditioner solution.

Congratulations Dennis! Glad to know you've found a good tube combo for your system! The Syrah quite simply transforms a system into something much more.

Regarding the Ken Rads. There are actually 3 different versions, each with unique sonics. I know you said the KR's you had were VT-231 but make sure they actually say VT-231. There are KR's which do not say VT-231 (they usually say KEN RAD and that's it) and these are the darkest (dullest) of the lot. Still quite good but not to everyone.

Yes the KRBG are very good in some systems but not necessarily good in all systems. The Ken Rads tend to burn a little hotter than other tubes and wear out faster for whatever reason. As a result they can be noisy - especially if they were previously used in an amp.

Hi Dennis - if your KenRads say VT-231 they are in the middle of the 3 sonic spectrums I've mentioned. In my system I find these to work the best - yes, their sound could be interpreted as "veiled" when compared to other 6SN7's but they deliver a weight and body that no other tube I've found can match. The rounds are much more open, a bit sweeter and dynamic.

In my system, I'd say my room is slightly "live" - so that adds a natural "air" to some extent. The KenRads tend to roll the highs slightly, push the midrange and give the sound a more natural overall timbre. Voices are much less metallic than with other tubes (Sylvania 6SN7W metal base).

I've found that most every tube has trade-offs. You just need to determine where in your system you can compensate for those.

There is never a sure fire tube implementation that works perfect in every system & for everyones taste (as I am finding out with my Aesthetix IO). The best solution is usually to try as many as you can.

Jeff ss & Mike - yep. I used the TMC cables and found them to be "okay" sounding. Of course I was comparing to Audio Note and NBS which wasn't exactly fair. Having tried many cables, I'd have to put the TMC in the same league as most lower end audio cables. In my system at least, these are not giant killers. For 60 bucks a pair used, they are certainly worth trying though - if you're curious.

A bit of advice, If you buy the TMC's from the factory, see if you can get upgraded connectors. The standard locking RCA's are a pain to use and tarnish rapidly. Mine turned from gold to black in about two weeks. Also, the stiffness of the cables makes them difficult to work with... if not bent, they can/will lift your supratek off the rack a bit so it only sits on three of the four feet.

Hi Outlier, Personal preference and system synergy are mostly what dictate which tubes are best for YOU (and YOUR system).

As for the wind noise... Preamps usually require the highest quality tubes. I have found that mabye 1 in 10 Ken Rads work well in my preamp. The others have that "wind noise" or tube rush or squeek or whatever. Some advice... when you buy tubes from dealers, find out if you can return the tubes if they don't work in your application. Many dealers will give you a refund or find you a better pair.

It took me lots of time and effort to get a stash of mint - sweet and noise free Ken Rad Black glass 6SN7's but for MY system it was worth it.

Also you might check an earlier post I made regarding the three varieties of Black Glass Ken Rads. Each has a similar yet unique signature. If you like Sylvania's in your system, then you would be best off with the NAVY labled Ken Rads Black Glass tubes -- they must say NAVY and not be just any old VT-231. The NAVY's are more extended and open in the highs when compared to standard VT-231's and of course the much "darker" sounding standard 6SN7 (not marked VT-231).

I've gone through many of these tubes and while there are sonic variations between similarly marked tubes, those differences are subtle when compared to the differences between the NAVY, VT-231 and standard 6SN7.

My Cortese finally arrived this weekend. I have only had a few hours with it but I am feeling a little let down by this preamp - of course I had big expectations. It is twice the price of the Syrah and on first impression, sounds almost identical. I'd say that out of the box, its slightly more refined and controled sounding, it has a wee-bit wider soundstage, and is less extended in the highs. Bass is definately better though....

Overall, right now it feels "tight" as if it still needs some time to break in, relax and open up.

The Electro Harmonix EL34 regulator tubes he sends are garbage to my ears and the first significant improvement I made was to re-box them, throw them under the sofa, and install my TS-5881's. Upon doing that, the Cortese sounded even more like the familiar Syrah. Is that a good thing? I don't know yet. You'd think not... since the Cortese IS twice the price of a Syrah.

So far, I've played with KenRad Black Glass, RCA 5692's, Sylvania Metal Base, and Tung-Sol Rounds. I still like the Ken Rads but I have a feeling that as the Cortese breaks in, the Ken Rads may not be the tube of choice... I'll need to find a new brand. :(

Mick has improved his packaging by leaps and bounds since I received my last preamps - outstanding improvement! Also the overall quality of the product seems to be much better than I experienced previously which tells me they are handling these much more carefully at the factory - during production. Solder joints are all well done and the tube sockets are FANTASTIC! Mick's using new (to me) black tube sockets which are securely fastened to the chasis & really hold the tubes securely. Tougher to tube roll though.

The Remote works flawlessly. Nice two function - slow up/down and fast up/down.

Also, Mick did a new Home Theater By-Pass circuit for me which we developed together. I haven't fully tested it yet but from what I can tell so far its an awesome improvement on the previous implementation of that feature.

Well that's it for now. I'll keep this thread going as I hear the Cortese break in.

Georgia, Of all the tubes I've tried (all on your list and then some) I find the Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231 to be my favorite. The Ken Rad Black Glass without the VT-231 marking is too dark for my system with Chardonnay and the Navy's were too bright.

The thing I really like about the Ken Rads is the midrange I can feel in/on my chest during vocals, strings, horns etc. Some people may not like that. The Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base is a great tube - sounds really good but once you hear that tube, it will be difficult to find good things about other Sylvaina 6SN7 tubes because they are so different and the Metal is so good. The Metals have fair midrange texture and weight but tends to sound somewhat in-organic to me.

Yes - the Tung Sol rounds are very nice sounding, very liquid, and a touch of sweetness - However, I found them to sound too shallow compared to the Ken Rads on my Chardonnay. I lost the midrange texture and weight I like.

Hope this was useful.

Smokeyclr, I am sure the Cortese will open up over the next few weeks. I don't know what to expect with it. The Chardonnay seemed to sound great out of the Box and then all the sudden one day, it sounded better. I do not recall a long drawn out break-in process. From the 'tightness' I hear on the Cortese, I think it may be a wilder ride. Its already sounding better than last night but I don't have a my friends Syrah set up today to compare.

Tubegrover - very true. The Syrah is a fine piece of gear and what got me leaning toward a Cortese was my relevation with the Aesthetix IO.

I purchased an Aesthetix IO and compared it to the Syrah phono section and was devistated. The Aesthetix (stock) was significantly better than the Syrah. No doubts. So I purchased a Placette volume control and tried to use the Aesthetix without the Syrah line stage. To my surprise, I found the Placette to be dead, lifeless and quite frankly miserable sounding. Between you and me, I seriously do not understand what the folks who use these think they're doing. I even emailed Placette to find out if it was broken. Horrible! Running the Aesthetix IO into the Syrah line stage was a massive improvement over having the Placette anywhere near my system. This tells me that in the context of Syrah vs. IO, the Syrah's line stage is the strong point.

But... then I connected the Aesthetix IO direct to my amp. At 80db output things were a little too loud but what I heard was absolutely stunning. It made the Syrah sound like garbage (sorry but it did). The clarity, dynamics and everything improved massively. Some people talk about a veil being lifted but this was like I finally sat down in the same room the music was playing in - veil was lifted? No, more like a brick wall was lifted.

I told Mick this and he said, you need a Cortese for phono. He suggested he had new tubes which would put the IO in its grave.

So I purchased a Cortese. We'll see. I haven't made similar comparisons yet but will eventually.

You're right, you're missing (i) regulator tube. The Syrah will play without regulator tubes but I wouldn't play it that way for too long because I don't know what the effects are. I know this because Mick asked me to do a test once and said, "pull out the regulator tubes and tell me what you hear".

The 5932's are supposed to be quite good if they are the dual black plate variety. If its one of those, try to find another. Most folks seem to have good results with Tung Sol 5881's when used in the regulator position... commonly available on Ebay for not too much cash.

The layout should put the regulator tubes nearest the transformer domes and the 6SN7s should go closer to the phono tubes. - but you most likely already figured that out.

Hope this helps.

Tom, you are correct. The IO is a great phono. But running it direct to the amps was mind blowing. The only thing about that which bothered me (except for the inability to control the volume) was that my drivers were moving & pulsing like crazy. Almost the same behavior as when I experienced the low frequency feedback from the Linn - before I got a wall shelf. With the Aesthetix running direct, there wasn't any feedback - the movement/pulsing of the drivers didn't get progressively stronger it just stayed at a constant level.

I've thought about setting the Aesthetix at 60 or 70db and using it direct ALL THE TIME and at one volume. And depending upon how the Cortese breaks-in, I might do that.

I've been worried about the volume controls for the Aesthetix because I suspect they will do a lot of what the Placette did. I know that most folks like the active stage with the IO except I doubt many have heard the IO direct to the amp. It takes balls of steel to hook a high gain phono pre direct to a pair of amps. :) Man was it worth it!

FYI - The remote is not exactly available for the IO. When they upgrade standard or MkII units to Sig status they receive a new chasis which accomodates the "upcoming" remote volume control mechanisim - which may not be coming according the Michelle and Jim.

Mick seems to think the Cortese is at par with the IO - time will tell and I'll let you know.

Tom - absolutely not. I don't think you're butting in. We're here to help one another right? I appreciate your help. Thank you.

Regarding the "same problem" that Albert Porter experienced, are you referring to the woofer pumping? I thought he used Sound Lab Ultimate speakers - which have no woofers.

I am aware that woofer pumping is subsonic. Prior to installing a wall shelf for my turntable, I had a miserable problem with woofer pumping which got progressively worse every second the music played - but it was somewhat different than what I experienced running the IO direct to the amps. With the IO direct, the woofers just moved a lot - it didn't get progressively worse - it seems as though it was some kind of impedance mis-match or perhaps sending an "unregulated signal" to the amps was not okay with 'em? I dunno.

Yep.. running the IO direct quite simply, showed me a potential for my system I was previously unaware of. While the sound was worlds better, it still needed & had room for improvement since at the time I was running all stock (russian) tubes in the IO. I expect that running the right NOS tubes in the IO direct configuration would produce even better results.

If any one out there has the ability to run the phono direct to the amps - by-passing the volume, I highly recommend it for an eye opening experience. Nothing I have ever heard in audio has produced such massive gains. The difference in sound was quite honestly like comparing a clock radio to a "decent" system.

The new Supratek Zazen, phono only Supratek? I just got a brief mention of this from Mick. Does anyone else have details on this? I'm sure TWL is salivating right now. :)

Supratek Cortese - 10 Days Old

It's been 10 days since I received my Cortese and it is still breaking in - slight changes mostly - nothing too dramatic at all.

My current feelings about the Cortese are similar to what they were on the 20th when I unpacked & plugged in the unit.

One thing I will say now is that the Cortese offers me exactly what I wanted from the Chardonnay/Syrah but didn't know it. Does that make sense? :) As we all know, in audio it often takes something better to make clear what we've been missing. The Cortese is sonically similar to the Syrah - yet a bit more transparent. The highs are a bit more refined and the bottom end is a more powerful. Overall, I would say that the improvements make up for the few shortcomings of the Chardonnay/Syrah which - as I said before, I never knew existed.

Other refinements include NO HUM WHATSOEVER in both phono and line stage. Amazing. NO MICROPHONICS when touching / taping the chassis. My Chardonnay used to make "piano" sounding noises when the chassis was touched the wires inside rattled and stuff like that. Annoying. But... this is totally not an issue with the Cortese.

The PROBLEM I have with the Cortese is this...
When the first Cortese's were made the tube compliment was totally different than today's Cortese. 4 regulator tubes, 4 driver tubes. Today, the Cortese has the exact same tube compliment as the Syrah (with the exception of phono)..

A side note - tongue in cheek - if you're planning to buy a Grange, maybe you should do it before it is re-released with the same tubes as the Cortese and the Syrah.

So what differentiates the Cortese from the Syrah? What makes it better? Same tubes and different circuit it seems. Opening up the Cortese exposes about 40 - 60% more wire and different parts than are contained in a Syrah.

Looking at the inside of the Chardonnay, I often wondered why it took Mick so long to build these things. Looking inside the Cortese, I cannot even imagine HOW HE BUILDS THESE. Pretty complex stuff going on in there.. and a very tight spot to work in.

So... after looking inside this unit, I've got to say the problem I had with wondering what differentiated the Cortese from the Syrah is GONE.

While this is certainly not the definitive Cortese review, it is beginning of what is starting to seem more & more like a worthwhile investment & improvement over the Syrah each day. I am very excited to hear what happens over the next 10 days and will certainly report back.

Hey Mick, that's great I am very happy for you and the progress/success of Supratek but what about the Cortese/Sauvignon and the Grange/Cabernet owners who just got screwed over by your joyful announcement?

Is there any plan for helping existing owners in upgrading the Cortese/Sauvignon and the Grange/Cabernet preamps or should we try to sell these now before more people read the thread and the resale value of these units plummet?

Thoughts?

I've been following the latest posts to this thread with great interest. It seems like Lrsky has come up with a neat way to dampen a component however... I think the microphonics issues with some Supratek's would not be solved by a platform. Perhaps I should explain.

First of all, most stock Supratek's are decoupled from the surface they rest on because Mick uses rather soft feet. This eliminates the likelihood that vibration energy would/could be transferred away from the chassis.

The chassis on the Supratek Chardonnay's / Syrah's is rather light. Inside the chassis is a lot of VERY STIFF silver wire which tends to vibrate when the chassis is tapped.

That, paired with the fact that most Supratek users have installed OLD NOS tubes in a preamp - is the real cause of the problem. Furthermore, preamps typically require higher grade tubes and I bet that many in use are simply not good enough or not at the quality level they should be. MAYBE 1 NOS tube in 10 is remotely "preamp grade" I've found.

Anyhow.. the tubes are the transducer for the vibration running through the chassis and the worse the tubes, the worse the microphonics.

I've had the best success with my Supratek(s) by removing the feet altogether and placing them on a heavy wooden surface. Especially the Power Supply! Nice improvement!

The Dampening of the chassis which was done by my technician actually helped the microphonic problem by preventing the transmission of the vibration within the unit itself. I doubt a platform under a decoupled (rubber foot) Supratek would have similar results.

Theaudiotweak, I believe Lrsky has devised a very interesting solution. While I can only speculate from what I've read thus far, it seems that since the lead is contained or perhaps suspended inside the "fishing worm" goo, I suspect this "lightens the load" of the lead and allows it to move more freely than normal in reaction to vibration, hence dissipating the energy. Theaudiotweak is correct on many levels about dampening and the need to drain (the right amount of)unwanted resonant energy away from the component. From what I perceive thus far about Lrsky's design, it seems that it IS potentially draining energy. Making an assumption that it is only dampening simply because there is lead present cannot be accurate.

Hey Mick, Great to read your input on the board! Thanks for the tips on microphonics. After some break-in, my Cortese is sounding magnificent. I love that baby!

Did you try that power cord Ethan sent you? I hope you did. After trying MANY power cords, I found that cord to be simply awesome on Suprateks! I've wanted to tell everyone about this cord but I just don't know if he can get enough of them built to meet demand. I realize the plugs are not correct for Australia but I'm sure he would be okay with your changing the plugs for demo purposes. If you do get to hear it, let me know what you think.

Another thing that helped microponics - even with high gain - was some dampening material. A technician who looked at one of my preamps "installed" some of this material on the inside top of the preamp as well as on the bottom plate. This stuff diminished the microphonics tremendously - even at high gain settings.

However, with the dampening material inside the preamp, I noticed a darkening of the sound. One problem "solved" and another started... Perhaps the gain settings ARE the right way to resolve this. :)

TJackson, Sorry... I don't have a home theater processor right now so I haven't been able to test the theater throughput. For HT, I've been using a Sony integrated unit which contains the DVD player, amp and receiver in one box. Unfortunately, that unit does not have preamp level outputs and thus will not work for test purposes. The only way for me to test right now would be to plug my CD directly into the HT Bypass... and I am not going to do that for fear of damaging the speakers.

By the looks of the latest HT Bypass, I can say (without testing) that it seems to function as planned.

I will try to find another preamp or another means to test this soon.

Hi Fiddler, I haven't mentioned the power cords mostly because I don't know what the availability is, or will be. I didn't want to turn everyone on to these if there weren't any places to get them... or if the manufacturer wasn't interested in mass-production... know what I mean?

I learned about the power cord from a friend of mine who like me had tried many power cords in his Supratek but was never exactly satisfied with any particular cord threfore using a cord which did the least harm. Once he "discovered" these, he ordered five or six additional cords and now uses them throughout his system for everything except his amps - which left him a few extra.

I purchased mine from him and the price was IMHO very reasonable - far less than any decent retail cable. I don't want to post his email address on Audiogon so, if you email me, I will put you in touch with him. He's a pretty cool guy so maybe he'll sell you one of his extras or give you one to audition? I don't know, so just email me.

What I found about this power cord particularly on the Supratek was how it added life to the unit. It is the kind of benefit that (now that I have heard it) I cannot live without in my system. I never liked what Electraglide, NBS, FIM, Virtual Dynamics, Elrod, Shunyata, etc. did on the Supratek. The results were either not enough good to justify the price, or too much.... and sent my system over the edge in one way or another. I had been using an Absolute PC on my preamp for a while because it didn't seem to get in the way, add anything or harm anything.

Some people really love the Absolutes and my feelings with these are love/hate. I loved that it was better than a stock cord & didn't change much or do much harm and I hated that I found nothing which performed better without going over the top.

Its weird, adding the new power cord to the Supratek, the difference was very subtle as if almost nothing changed. Everything seems right.. just like I envisioned it did before, but going back to the old cable and listening, I noticed the system sounded dull, lethargic and lifeless by comparison. Switching back to the new power cord, gave me that "Ahhh... much better" feeling and I haven't removed it from my system since.

The benefit of this PC comes without any apparent shift in tonal balance or any negative "side effects". It is a very, very good match for the Supratek. My friend was so excited about the cord that he sent one to Mick for audition. Unfortunately, he overlooked the fact that Australia uses different connectors. :)

Outlier, The Supratek's will play fine without the regulator tubes installed. I am not sure exactly what the tube does but... I presume they regulate... :) I've tried a few tubes in that position and have just recently tried the Metal 6L6 RCA's. (Black Metal tubes) They're kind of ugly but they sound very, very impressive and are pretty inexpensive. Worth a shot if you can stomach the looks.

My guess is one of your Ken Rad 6L6G's is dead.

Also... did you hook up with Ethan regarding that power cord? I think you might like it. I've got one and its a big enhancement to my system.

I think the Philips/Meitner rig DOES cost an arm and a leg! I believe they are about 10K?

You might look up John Wright at museatex.com. He is modifying Ed Meitners "older" products. I recently got one of the Bidat DACs modified by John and it's simply the best digital I have ever heard (and I've owned just about every one box player worth owning). The DAC including mods cost me 900 bucks total. Don't let the price fool you. This thing is the real deal.

Congratulations on your Teres upgrade! That will be sweet I'm sure.

Outlier... our friend Twl doesn't like me to say this... :)
After hearing a turntable in my system, I became disgusted with all my previous $10K cd setups...I sold it all.

Then months later, I bumped into someone who turned me on to the Bidat.

Anyhow, sad to say, the Bidat makes me wonder why I bother with a turntable... Its that good. Unfortunately the Bidats are hard to find. Another Meitner product which seems to be more available is the Melior DAC which I have never heard. It too can be modified & taken to another level for $300. You might talk to Audiogon user "Sutts" as he is doing a comparison between it and his Audio Note DAC3 Balanced. He could give you some insight on the Melior.

I cannot find the Supratek Tube thread anywhere - I think it got yanked. Why? I dunno.

Ecclectique, I've tried some Sylvania 6L6 GWA (I think that was the designation) from the 40's. Smoked - gray glass. Anyhow.. they were recessed sounding, dull in the Supratek. In fact, I think they sounded a lot like the Sovetek EL34's the Cortese came with - not great.

I understand that the regulators aren't supposed to effect the sound much but I do hear major differences in the depth of the music with different tubes in that position. Oddly enough, I can hear bigger differences between regulator tubes than rectifier tubes in the Syrah, Chardonnay and Cortese.

The metal 6L6 RCA's had a tremendously wide soundstage yet the music was almost flat sounding - not dull or lifeless - just not deep or 3 dimensional when compared to the TS 5881's in my system.

I'm still searching for a pair of Sylvania 5932's with the dual black plates, as well as some early GEC KT66 to try. If those don't cut it, I'll most likely stick with the 5881's.

On a side note, I got some Mullard ECC32/CV181's to replace my Ken Rads. Neat tubes. I know.. I know... they AREN'T 6SN7's... Oddly enough, they work great in my Cortese but didn't work in a friends Syrah. In the Syrah, the remote volume control stopped working and the gain/dynamics went to about 20% of normal. That's weird because they function perfectly in the Cortese.

Ecclectique - I don't have a tube tester so haven't tested the ECC32's. I presume there is nothing wrong with them given that they work fine in my Cortese. The trouble my friend had with the ECC32's in his Syrah and the non-functioning remote volume lead me to believe that the way his Syrah is wired is different than newer Supratek's.

I think his Syrah is the second unit to ever have the remote control - my Chardonnay was the first. Switching the DC power cord between his Syrah and my Chard caused similar issues with the remote volume not working.

At that time, I believe Mick was pulling power for the motorized volume from different places in the pre - experimenting?? Perhaps this is an instance where the different internal electrical properties of the ECC32 vs. 6SN7 come in to play.

Grannyring, what tubes (names & model numbers) do you have in the Syrah now? It is possible to get more bass impact, weight and body by tube rolling in the Syrah. I just need to know your tube compliment to get an idea where you're starting from.

Fiddler, you are correct. While Mick's products have been successful as a result of how they sound, that does not diminish the fact that his customers -- the ones willing to "bite the bullet" and buy a preamp on faith, without ever listening to it -- are the ones who financed that progress and therefore should be given the respect of an upgrade path.

I commend Mick on his progress both in the development of new products as well as his ongoing customer support & loyalty to his customers but I am a bit stunned at how careless this "new product introduction" was and how little it took those die-hard Supratek advocates into consideration.

My take on Mick's post was basically that it was a slam on the Cortese / Grange and the general overtone somehow seemed that Mick was never happy with that design to begin with. The slow progression/evolution of the Cortese design into something which is much more like the Syrah than it was in its inception is clear evidence of this dissatisfaction. Yet, Mick's never failed to tell his potential customers how great his preamps were and how he couldn't possibly build anything better - in so many words.

Now.. we hear it again. With this post, Mick claims to have done what he never thought possible. Just like what he said when he built the Cortese and then again when he built the Grange.

Sorry for rambling here. I'd really like Mick's input on this before writing more speculation. :)

So in closing, Fiddler... It's not just MY pain. If the value of Cortese and Grange preamps fall, so will the value of Syrah. This pain is for all Supratek owners. I am as I said, interested in Mick's follow up comments on this topic because I feel it would be in his best interest to provide an upgrade path for his customers - for many reasons.

Hi Fiddler, I'm not pissed. I simply think that there should be some consideration for existing customers. The post didn't seem to indicate there was any - and I am waiting to hear back from Mick before getting too emotional about this.

Mick's products are great and *I* look forward to hearing what his newest designs sound like but truth be told, Mick's "sales force" is mostly made up of existing customers. I cannot even count the number of emails I've received/answered and the amount of personal time I've spent communicating about these products - and in effect, selling the Supratek brand. Likewise, I am sure there are many more people out there doing the same thing - and in essence, helping spread the word about Supratek products.

You'll notice that Mick doesn't advertise in the audio mags nor has he ever. The popularity of his gear has been generated by word of mouth and by satisfied customers. This "preamp deal of the century" thread is by far the most active/popular thread on Audiogon which in turn is the most active/popular audio website on the internet. This is where a great majority of the Supratek advertising happens and it's no wonder Mick posted his announcement here.

I am confident that Mick will offer an upgrade path (but dismayed that there was no mention of this in the "new product announcement"). If existing customers do not upgrade to the new design and confirm to the world that there is an improvement, the "sales cycle" as it is now will stop functioning. I'm not a sales genius but it occurs to me that taking care of his customers would be the best way to ensure his "life's work" continues to be successful.

Tubegroover - think about it, the Cortese (and Grange I suppose) is hugely better than the Syrah in that it is WAY more refined, solid, and of a much higher quality standard than the Syrah - in my experience. While sonically they are quite similar, the Cortese is in every way a more precise instrument - having owned/heard both, there is no question in my mind.

Without going into detail speculating how this could effect used Syrah prices, lets just say that if the price of a used Cortese were to fall substantially, who in their right mind would pay $2500 plus customs and shipping for a new Syrah from Australia vs. buying a used Cortese in good condition?

Anyhow.. I may have totally over reacted to this and therefore put too much emphasis on "resale value" which while important & something Supratek is "famous" for, is not what really matters.

What seems most important (to me) is whether or not Mick provides an upgrade plan to Cortese/Grange customers - without that, this announcement of progress will most certainly hurt all who have supported Supratek - in one way or another.

Stevem - even though you are mentioned on the Supratek website (at the bottom of the preamp page) as a helpful and encouraging person, I do not believe you have your facts straight and therefore are not helping any.

*We* should consult the master? Well.. The master hasn't bothered to come back to explain anything and hasn't updated his website. He just waltzed in here and told us that he had bad news.

Mick's "intro" post:

The bad news for present owners is that I've completely redesigned the Cortese/Sauvignon and the Grange/Cabernet preamps.

Thanks for the encouragement Steve but I don't believe that announcing improvements to a design as "bad news" for present owners is very professional -- perhaps that's why *I* jumped off the deep end.

Steve, you confuse me when you say,

If noise is not an issue with your current Cortese/Grange in your system then the upgrade is also not an issue?

If that were the case, they why on Earth would this be BAD NEWS for existing owners?

This is where I think you need to consult the master yourself before trying to smooth things over with silliness like that.

It's pretty clear, Mick's announcement either indicate changes more significant than solving noise issues or a newly crafted line of B.S. that none of us have heard before.

I am waiting for the master.

The master has spoken.

Steve, I appreciate your input and apologize for my "passion" (as Asa put it). I should not have directed it at you per se'... Perhaps it's because I know you are close to Mick and the explanation you are giving seems to deeply contrast that which Mick himself posted.

Mick's post clearly indicated a revolutionary improvement to the design and your post seems to indicate that this is nothing more than solving a compatibility issue.

Mick's post started by saying this was bad news for existing customers and you seem to indicate it is not.

So my question to you is, who do we believe? Should we believe Mick, or should we believe you? I'd like to know.

Sure, I could email Mick myself and get an explanation but because he made the decision to use the forum to make a "bad news to present owners" product announcement, he should use this forum to clear up the confusion created by that announcement.

I am sure there are more people interested than just me.

Hi Jazzdude - congratulations! I'm sure the Sauvignon will be a fantastic addition to your system. Please let us know what you think when it arrives.

Khrys, don't you have anything better to do?