Pre amps cost vs. value ... what I discovered last month.


Greetings all.

I’m a mastering engineer. www.magicgardenmastering.com . We use Acoustic Zen balanced cabling, highly modified Cary 211 FE tube amps, Bricasti M1 SE DAs and Joachim Gerhard’s Allegra speakers. TORUS balanced power comes 220 from the street. The room is excellent, and you would love to hear it.

For 15 years the pre amp/router was a Crane Song Avocet. I paid around $1800 for it.

Recently decided to try a couple of audiophile products in the pre amp stage and was shocked and saddened how bad they were. Yes, the studio designed Avocet has a relay click for each 1db step, and yes it has a rack mounted 2U body with a corded remote, but it’s clear folks are really getting taken to the cleaners on pre amps. The older and highly regarded Boulder 1010 (used price $5500), was just terrible, truly terrible. The new and fully broken in BAT vk-43SE (demo price $7500) was much better, but still had a cloudy tone as compared to the class A Avocet. Not sure if that’s the cap or the transformer, but it made everything less clear and more generic, more distant from the music.

That’s all. Happy listening.
128x128brianlucey

Showing 2 responses by antinn

@brianlucey; your assessment brings up the age old observation that how a unit measures does not necessarily reveal how it will sound.  The Boulder equipment, same as the Levinson generally measure impressively, but can draw different subjective observations.  Stereophile when it measured the Boulder 2110 concluded - "Boulder's 2110 is the best-measuring preamplifier I have encountered."; however its cost will draw pause.  Yet, the cost effective Benchmark DACs and Amplifiers measure impressively and have both home and "Pro" following.  Your system with the exception of the preamp is very high end, so the value of high end is something you appear to appreciate.  Of course, the industrial design of high end with the sculpted and precision machined cases adds a lot of cost.  Also, high end generally applies a lot of emphasis on input power to accommodate the wide variety of source power - few have the arrangement you have.  Also, the distribution and dealer hands-on adds further cost that "Pro" hardware designed for racks and sold mass-market do not incur; and home equipment is expected to be routinely updated where "Pro" unit may remain stable for many years, so R&D costs can be very different.  So, as spoken above synergy (whole exceeds the sum of its parts) is that elusive item that once achieve, some of us will not touch for fear of its loss; and once disturbed can take months if not years to achieve again.  Some technical items, the Boulder while having PINS 2 hot can change the polarity, and this 'may' be the source of the weak center image; but not everything.  Nelson Pass in a recent Stereophile article has a interesting observation that positive phase 2nd order distortion can widen and deepen the soundstage while negative phase 2nd order distortion can reduce and focus in your face; so synergy with tube amplifiers can be sometimes be a mine field.  Quick review of the Crane Song Avocet manual does not list many technical specifications and quick web search shows a number of positive "Pro" reviews, but no technical measurements.  It would be interesting to see you opinion of the new Crane Song Avocet and whether 15 years later is it voiced the same? and of course in this community we can hear the chorus/mob yelling for blind testing.  At the end, everyone has their own perceptions/desires for how they want their system to sound; this is readily observed with the printed press that understanding they are for profit; but JA from Stereophile who is a recording engineer favors equipment that measures perfectly with speakers that measure flat.  Different strokes, different folks.  However, the cost-to-value item is a bit more complicated - what are the buyers priorities; what is the intended market; how much will the market bear; but to throw them under the bus is bit strong - IMHO.
To everyone here, please take some time to go to OPs site and review the hardware he has, except for his preamp it is VERY high end.  The amps are $20k a pair before mods, the DACs are $10k each, and I would bet the speakers are >>$25k, and all of this is in a designed acoustic space.   The real question is how many really hi-end home systems  can equal his system, and the answer will be very few.  This thread started on the question of cost to value for high end preamps.  It is entirely possible that if his Avocet was placed into a fancy case and marketed in a traditional dealer network, that the price would be 2-3 times higher.  That said, much of what is being recommended is somewhat variations of the same design theme.  Brian, to better what you have may be more an exercise in something different, but not better.  Otherwise, Spectrum with their very fast wide bandwidth design, or the Differential Balanced transformer design of Sonus Veritas would be different but the costs are breathtaking.   Given your talents, a custom unit maybe your only alternative, but if it is not broken why fix it. Otherwise, your assessment of SR and MQA is why I said adios to digital and went back to vinyl, but it has taken 2 years to get it right (for me).  However, you have peaked my interest enough for me to spend my money to buy albums you have engineered. Thank-you.