Thanks for all the responses. I'm not opposed to a DIY option when the time comes, but I do prefer to try a manufactured product as it seems that there should be some science to it that could be missing when simply mixing and matching from DIY parts, but on the flip side so much of audio is placebo anyways it's sometimes difficult to know what's real and what's contrived.
I don't have dedicated circuits or outlets, the outlet could be an option, but I'm certainly not planning to get a dedicated line for this project. It's simply beyond what I'm willing to spend/do given my happiness with my current setup.
My goal is to affordably dabble in power cords in an effort to see if I can tell any difference in my system. I guess what I should do is visit my local extreme high fi store and see if they would be willing to swap out one of their "small car priced" power cords for a basic one just to prove that it makes an obvious audible difference. It should be obvious in a system like this, right? |
Vegasears - It makes absolutely no sense to me that smaller AWG power cords would outperform larger AWG power cords. If the primary issue is the ability to transfer power and I'm assuming that configuration/design of the cables you were comparing was essentially the same, then this is exactly opposite what I'd expect? |
Williewonka - "A good power cord will contribute to those transient demands being better satisfied resulting in a better image, which in turn improves clarity and image."
What are the design parameters that allow this to happen? What is a good power cord designed to do that a cheap power cord doesn't do?
If I understand what you wrote correctly,a good power cord is likely to make less of a difference when used with equipment that has a power supplies with sufficient headroom to not be reliant on the incoming power to support transient demands. It seems that one could then make a general observation that a power cord upgrade is likely to make more of an improvement on a less well designed and likely less expensive piece of gear. This makes sense to me because I would expect the margin of improvement to be significantly less on a really expensive well designed piece of gear where nothing of spared due to cost.
I made a similar suggesting at my local audio store that Nordost Sort Kones should have less of an effect as the equipment design gets better because I wouldn't expect a $500 CD player to include the same level of care in the design as I would a $10,000 CD player. |
I'm not in this with the specific goal of improving the sound of my system, but rather to evaluate for myself the reality of sonic difference from a power cord with a secondary benefit of potentially improving my system.
Jmcgrogan2 - I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm going to spend $10,000 on a CD player I would expect that the product be designed such that a $150 in Nordost Sort Kones not make a significant improvement because there is no excuse for the design to include this "technology" or at a minimum for them to charge me $10,150 and include the stupid cones as a package deal.
My observation from what Williewonka said is that the power cord becomes more important when the amplifier is relying on it for transient demands making it a more significant factor for potentially less expensive equipment that doesn't have virtually unlimited overhead in the power supply. |
Williewonka - Thanks for the information. While I struggle to wrap my mind around the objective reality for what you're saying, I do greatly appreciate your clearly written posts from your experiences. It definately gives some credibility to the possibility in my mind.
On every forum that I'm involved with I find that there are people to be ignored and people that you can learn from. At this point I consider you in the group of people that I can learn from.
Now, once I get my debt paid off in my budget for my tube amplifier purchase I can save a few dollars and then look into some options in the power cord or outlet world. |
"And why would it matter that the power cord be 12, 10, or 9 gauge when it is the last 6 feet to the amp with 30, 40, 50 feet or more of 14 gauge feeding the system outlet through connections of inexpensive outlets? As I said, dedicated lines should be the first step for a power upgrade." - Tls49
This gets back to the argument for why any power cord of higher quality that what's in the house wiring could ever make a real difference. I'm not saying that a smaller gauge power cord couldn't sound exactly the same as a larger gauge one, but if the only difference between the two power cords is the gauge it would be expected that the larger gauge one would at least be equal and have more potential than the smaller gauge power cord.
A water large water pipe has the potential for more water to flow through it, but if a smaller pipe has adequate capacity to carry all of the available water then having a larger pipe wouldn't result in a benefit, but would have more potential. |
Jmcgrogan2 - In theory, if the goal of audio equipment is to reproduce the original signal as close to the original as is possible then it would be expected that as the various pieces of equipment get better and better the resulting sound should become more and more the same among different pieces of gear. A well designed pieces of gear where no expense was spared should have less room for improvement than a middle of the road piece of gear would.
As an example, I used to own a 2000 SS Camaro and there were quite a few aftermarket bolt-on options for upgrading the intake and exhaust with a real improvement in horsepower and torque. I had a friend that worked at Dinan working with BMWs and at one point they were trying to improve on the OEM exhaust and after they essentially stripped the system do to what you'd find on a race car could only document 2 hp on the dino. BMW had designed the exhaust system so well that there really wasn't any room for improvement with a bolt on product. |
Tls49 - I think you missed that my example included that the smaller diameter pipe had adequate capacity to carry "all of the available water" meaning that a larger pipe would never be able to carry more in reality because it simply wasn't available.
For example, if the water source was a water truck with a 6 inch outlet there would be a restriction at the source that would limit the benefit of having a larger hose attached. It's possible that having a hose that is larger than 6 inches might be an advantage, but at some point going larger would have absolutely no effect.
In audio, at some point a power cord will either be adequate to supply all available power (probably unlikely in reality) or it will be capable of handling an amount that is sufficient to supply everything that the power supply could ever ask. I think this is where Williewonka right on when he talks about dimenishing returns. |
TLS49 - My interest in checking out power cords is too potentially improve the sound of my system, but the driving force that motivates me is curiosity to find out if I can actually hear a difference in my system rather than any unhappiness with the current sound. |
Dave33 - Could you post any specifics on the system that he had? I would be curious to know what speakers, receiver, etc. were in play. |
Foster_9 - Do you really believe that you can remember what your system sounded like with the previous power cord installed after many hours of break-in on the new one? I hope you at least swap back for a after the break-in to the original cord otherwise I'd say you are fooling yourself. It is simply not possible to accurately remember the "micro details" after a long period of time, it is hard enough with an instant A/B comparison. |
Mt10425 - You are correct that I'm questioning the validity of making a comparison between what I heard today after several hundred hours of listening to what I remember hearing previously. The responses from Banquo363 and Foster_9 provide a level credibility to their comparisons as they are attempting to take some objective data.
I'm stated that I'm a generally a skeptic when it comes to power cables but I'm open to the idea that the improvements could be real. Part of the process for me is to try and sift through the many responses and try to make sense of it. I know from my experience that on some days my system seems to sound better than others and I suspect the differences could be attributed to a variety of things ranging from where I'm sitting, to changes in the accoustics in the room from things being moved slightly, to neighbors making toast next door and messing up my power, to my mood. I can't objectively distinguish any constants so it would be virtually impossible for me to think that I have enough control over the many variable that effect how I experience my system to make any comparision that was separated by any length of time.
I've seen measured data showing how much room accoustics can change the audio response by simply moving a couple of inches. I've also experience how different my system sounds if I sit in a different spot. I realize that a lot of the people on this site have a much more controlled listening environment than I do, but things like this do make me interested to know more when certain types of statements are made. |
