Power Cord for Power Conditioner

Happy New Year and here we go again.

I doubt there's anything new that I can add, but I have some spare time and this is also a good way to re-ignite my brain cells.

Anyway here goes.

I would agree that there would likely be little differences in sound using power cords that were identical in construction , length and materials.

It's when you start fooling around with the design and materials that things get interesting.

I may not be an electrical engineer( I have several friends who are and who use upgraded wires)but I beleive it's been accepted in the scientific community that some metals are better than others at conducting electricity.

They tell me they even have tables and charts to refer to.
How very comforting that is.

So, believing in this, I can now understand why some cables can sound better than others, and that they all don't sound the same.

But then I like to tinker and experiment, and what I found out a long time ago was that I could never make a power cord sound the same as the last one did, if I changed the connectors, or changed the type of wire I used or the way I braided the wires.

What I noticed was that each variation changed the sonics of the sound of the system.
My source component was a single power amp to keep things controlled, I only fooled around with it's power cord.

Now what I heard was a change in certain frequencies within the music.
Some instruments were clearer, sometimes the bass improved, sometimes it was thinner.
Sometimes the cymbals had more shimmer, sometimes they were tinny.
At other times you could hear the sound of wood hitting brass, not rain on a tin roof.
You could hear individual handclaps also,again, you knew it wasn't rainfall that the recording was giving you.

But what I couldn't do was tell what type of wood sticks were used nor the make of the cymbals.

This kind of information I have not been able to retrieve, try as I may,so in this regard the stock power cord is no better or worse than any other power cord.

So,perhaps some folk's expectations of what a high end power cord should do are tilted towards the extreme.

Or perhaps they don't listen for the things that I listen for when I make changes in my system.

Some changes are subtle, but if they clear away some of the mud, then they are doing something better than what was there before.

And if that is found to be the case, then perhaps someonelse can do it better than me.

And I found out that there are several such companies that make power cords that are much better than what I ever made.

And I never found any that sounded the same as mine or the same as the stock cord that came with the amp.

If I adhere to any "belief", it is my belief that some folks can hear differences and some folks can't.

I don't need to seek out validation or proof that what I am hearing is real.
The differences are real to my ears,so no need for proof of their existence.

The ones who can't hear the differences do, however seek validation that such things can't exist, it makes them feel better I suppose, and not so left out of all the fun some of us are having.

And having fun in this hobby is what it's about.

Having fun discovering things that make improvements and let me enjoy my hobby more.

This is the road I've travelled for almost 40 years in this hobby, and if it's all been a delusion, then it's a happy one.
And I don't need measurements or blind test results to validate those feelings.
They are real to me.

So if I used lamp cord to power a pair of Levinson mono blocks I'll be ok?

If you can't hear any differences between power cords,yes I agree something is very wrong somewhere.

Why wouldn't a better power cord on a power conditioner make it work better?

You don't need to prove it to me, I can hear the differences with the one's I've made and bought.

All power cords can have an influence on the sound of whatever component they are plugged into, so what makes a power conditioner immune?

The better power that goes into it, the better it works, just like a better power cord on an amp will work better than a zip cord type power cord.

I've had great success using an upgeaded DIY/Hybrid name brand power cord on my power supply for my Rega P9 TT.

I can't give you the scientific reason why, but you are welcome for a demo.

I've been laughed off of a couple of forums because I sang the priases of cd and lp demagnetizing.
I use a Hammond bulk tape eraser that came out of a recording studio.
Got it for free, the owner switched to digital.

I've offered several invitations to demo it's effects, but none of the naysayers have ever taken me up on the challenge.

They prefer to just deny that it works.
Or seek scientific validation of why it should.
Whatever happened to actually giving it a listen and then making up your mind afterwards?
Their minds are made up beforehand.

Anyway, I am about to embark on yet another DIY 20 amp power cord, this time with upscale Furutech connectors and wire.

I know it will sound different, but will it be better than buying a Shunyata to match the Hydra?

I just hope it comes close, because the cost of both is close.

This is the new audiophile,quite different from the ones I knew when I started on my journey 40 years ago.

Demagging(how I call it) an lp, cd or dvd, and I would presume DVDA and SACD is a tweak that can be demonstarated quite easily and is repeatable(but not with a previously treated cd).

I've done this numerous times for my friends and they always prefer the demagged version.

I've used two identical cd's,played them both, then demagged one and played them both again.
The demagged cd was always preferred.

What you notice in before and after demagging a cd or any of the other software.

The information is less random or scattered, there is more definition to the music,it's less diffused if you will, more cohesive.

This makes it easier to differentaite the tiny little details that happen in the background, that when not demagged, just sound like background noise.

Now many people(the holdouts from a bygone era) still scoff that a power cord can reap any benefits.
They are all the same they claim,and are made for just one purpose and if not broken all they do is pass the electricity from point A to point B.

But,, in over 25 years of DIY power cords and owning and using 3 Shunyata Annaconda Helix power cords,I can also demonstrate the different sonics of the Shunyatas and any of my other power cords.

I am not stating that the Shunyatas are the best out there.I haven't that kind of experience nor exposure to any other power cords except Continuum, Blue Circle, and Cardas.And numerous hybrids of each in my DIY attempts.

Something that is very easy to do, is to just play around with the receptacles in DIY power cords.

If you can't hear the difference in quality as you change cheap home hardware type receptacles for Hubbels, or Furutechs and then move up to their pricier versions, I doubt that power cords of any kind or price will make a difference to you.

What I have just ordered today are the two Furutech receptacles-Ftech-71030,71031, and 2 mtr of Furutech FP3Ts762 power cord wire-Ftech 71126.

I should have it within a couple of days.

This will be used to power the Hydra 2, in place of a hybrid DIY power cord consisting of Continuum wire, and external 10 guage solid copper(Romex) twisted ground and Wattgate 20 amp and entry level copper furutech receptacle.

I've been waiting for a 20 amp Shunyata Annaconda to come up used but I am too slow on the draw and some folks won't deal outside of the USA.

One otherthing I would like to add,the How and Why doesn't matter to me, something is either an improvement, a step forward or it's not worth considering.
And the only way to know for sure is to try it yourself.

I was an early advocate of IsoClean fuses and now I can state that the HiFi supremes are also well worth considering. If trying to get all of the music that you have paid for really does matter to you, and you are a DIY or modder, to not consider using an upgraded power cord or fuse somehow just doesn't fit the scenario.

By now you should have come to the realisation, that just about everything has a sonic signature, and the game is to find the ones that best suit your needs.

Yes demagging works with MC or MM cartridges, with tube or solid state phono stages, with belt drive or direct drive tables, with unipivot or fixed tonearms, and with everythingelse in the chain.

Of course all you need to do is demag the lp.

Lamp cord was considered 18 guage.

Why wouldn't that work on the Levinson's if power cords are all equal?

Because some gear demands better.

And sounds that much better with it.

I just put together my Furutech power cord for my Hydra two power conditioner.

So far so good,nothing earth shatteringly different from my other DIY power cord,but quite the difference cost wise in parts.I went with the rhodium 20 amp IEC and 20 amp rhodium recptacle and two meters of their power cable.

It's about a $500.00 investment in parts, but a quarter the cost of another Annaconda.

The Furutech DIY power cord is plugged into a FIM receptacle that is wired directly to the panel with about 4 feet of 10 guage solid core Romex.

For now all I can report is that it is no worse than what I had, I'll give it a few days to settle in and perhaps there will be less demand on the power if this heat wave snaps.

I'm not making excuses, but when the voltage drops nothing sounds good.

Here's a question I would like answered by the "deniers".

Why would anyone spend $1000.00 on a power cord if it didn't sound better than a $6.00 one?

I certainly wouldn't if there was no difference.

But I have spent $2000.00 several times for power cords because they did sound better.

Here's how that came about.

I was looking for a better power cord for my Cary 300sei once upon a time.
I went to the dealer who also sells Shunyata products.
I was impressed by the improvement these power cords made in my friends very expensive system(Nagra elecronics, Sonus Faber Strad speakers,)and yes you could hear a difference even with a few weeks between visits.
I said at that time, What's different? It sounds better, smoother, fuller, more impact and less grunge, yet it was great the last time, but now it's better."
He showed me the Shunyata Annacondas, and so I thought when it was time I would try them in my set up.

But did I need to buy the Annacondas?
The dealer let me listen to his demo Cary ,and a cd player with just headphones at the amp.
I then went up the line starting at the low end of the Shunyata snake pit.
If I could find a snake that was cheaper I would have bought it. But I didn't.
The top Annaconda did the trick,I was sold, and then later I ended up replacing most of my power cords with Annacondas.

Did I have to justify my expense after the fact?

That's absurd logic.

I heard the improvement and fortunately I was able to afford the cables, simple as that.

No remorese, no trying to convince myself that I made the right decision.

I made the purchse because I could hear the different levels of improvemnts in the power cords.

I'll let the deniers go to the shunyata site and read the white papers for any type of explanation why one snake sounds different than the others.

As stated, the how and why of things doesn't matter to me, only the final results.

I care less about the how and why I breath, and just take pleasure in the fact that I do.

I guess some of us don't need "proof" to validate our purchases, because the proof is in what we hear.

I think the folks who constantly seek validation or scientific proof perhaps don't have the same self confidence, or perhaps need someonelse to tell them what to purchase.

If that's the case, they ,not I are more prone to all manner of snake oil .

Be aware of the man in the white lab coat, be very aware.

Excellant reply Grant.

I am glad you stepped out of the shadows.

Some folks rip the guts out of old vintage gear at great expense , and replace old worn parts with newer designer devices, yet they can't wrap their minds around power cords.

If something as small as a resistor or capacitor makes a sonic difference, and some folks prefer one brand over another and can hear the difference,(if they couldn't hear any difference how could they prefer one over the other?). When the very first thing their project sees is the power cord,how can they place so little importance to it?

In fact without the power cord, everything else is in vain.

And for me, it is in vain, if you end up plugging the project into the wall with a stock power cord.

You folks on Agon are lucky.
The mods at Cannuck Audio Mat(CAM) where I am held in low esteme for being and UN denier-would havelocked this thread down or deleted my posts for posting my experiences with after market power cords, be they DIY or store bought.

I guess I am of the Shunyata faith, but I've given ypou th reason for that.

I just as well could have be a follower of Kubala Sosna, but they weren't around for the comparison.

The point is, it's not what brand of power cord you choose, it's the fact that you are choosing one that isn't stock thatnirks the deniers.
I coined a term wallpluggers-for folks who like to plug straight into the wall.Mostly with stock power cords.

However I've seen the term denier used and to me it's more appropo.
It covers more ground and includes other things beside plugging direct into the wall sans power conditioner or aftermaket PC.

Now I've asked it up there in the Great white north(where censorship and a lack of your first ammendament rights)and I'll ask it here, "what pleasure or purpose do the Deniers get from , well denying that, anything like fuses or power cords or power conditioning make an audible improvement?

Surely I must be smart enough to have earned enough money to buy theis stuff, am I not also snmart enough to spend it on what I want?

Whose ears are listening to this stuff anyways, your or mine?

Now another point I've made before in that other place-how can you know if this stuff makes a difference or not if you have never and will never use it?

How can you tell me it made no improvement in my system?
And you think I am a mystic?

Everyone is pretty much at the mercy of what goes into the panel, but somehow all the hundreds of miles between it and the "source" doesn't seem to be all that important.In the big picture,it's what is done after the panel that really matters and is the only place where you do have the ability to try to capture all it's potential.Or do more harm.You choose.

If you put a strangle hold on it or allow that power to be polluted or corrupted even more,you degrade what quality power you are getting from the paneland rob your system of it's true potential.

We are all wallpluggers,it's just that some of us have found that it's what you plug into the wall can make or break your system.

A 15 amp(if that) line with daisey chained multiple receptacles and powering numerous non audio products,isn't getting the most from the gear you've spent your audio dollars on.

But if you have never tried it any other way, how could you possibly know any of the stuff some of us are speaking about?

I have to disagree, Jeff, this thread can go on as long as there are two opposing viewpoints.

I personally don't expect you or any other person to experience what I experience, in my system and with whatever power cords I have at hand.

All I can do is relate my experiences to you and others.
Whether you believe them or not, that's not the issue.
I am not trying to impose my point of view on you.

But in the interest of equality and fairplay,you should afford me and the rest of us who do hear audible improvemnts the same courtesy.

In other words, I don't doubt that you can not hear the same things that I hear.
But you can't for certain deny that I can hear the things I claim to hear .

You should not be exempt from supplying the rest of us with the scientific proof that"I"can not hear what I claim to hear.
Is that not being fair?
Is this now putting the same burden of proof on the denier as it is on the believer?

You know I started in this hobby years ago, about 40.
I have also been a musician for close to 50 years.
I've got a pretty decent aural imprint of what music sounds like, from real up close on stage, and from a few feet away from my listening chair.

I don't claim to have any super ears(especially not in my advancing age)but the ears that I have were self taught to be able to distinguish certain things regarding music that perhaps lesser trained ears may not zero in on.

I don't claim to be better than you,or superior(as some folks may imply)I just can distinguish things that some folks may not, or have not been shown how to.

I was also mentored, by folks who knew more than i did in my early years.
They guided me and told me what to listen for and how to listen to music in critcial mode and to distinguish between that type of active listening to just passive, listening for entertainment sake.

I value the latter more than the former, but to really get the most enjoyment you have to start with critical listening.You have to have a foundation.

Which, if I am accused of anything related to beliefs, is believing that this is becoming a lost art.

So much is printed about how audio today is too fixated on the details etc, and that the essence of the music has been lost.That the gear from bygone eras is more akin to the real thing than what is hoisted upon us by the high end and all their shills(as some contemporaries of mine like to say) that old vintage gear should be all that anyone with a sane mind needs.

The rest of the stuff like expensive aftermarket power cords is just for show and to impress the "boys".

Well, that's not the reason I bought expensive power cords(yes the power cord to my DecWare amp costs twice as much as the amp), I bought the power cords(Shunyata, but try any of the others)because my ears heard the improvement.

What creeps me out, is that there are folks who say that I didn't hear those improvements in my system ,in my home and with my ears!

What science can back up those claims?

It's beyond the realm of any science I have ever read about.

More like the paranormal.

But I'm not trying to prove it to you.

You are asking me to prove it to you.

There is a difference.

I am not seeking validation, or approval for that matter.

I am just stating what my ears are telling me.

I can never prove that my ears can hear things that yours may not.

I can only state that I hear, not believe ,that I hear improvemnts in power cords.

Stock power cords in my system and with my ears work.

There's no denying that fact.

You or others may prefer the sound of the stock cords to more expensive power cords.
That's no reflection on you or your taste.

You have a set of preferences, arrived at over time,for the sound of music in a hifi system.

That your preferences and mine should be the same, is as hard to get my head around as it is for you to think that one power cord can be different from another.

The stock power cord may emphaisi the bass,you may like that.
I may prefer a cord that emphaisies the treble detail.

No one is right no one is wrong, we can both agree.
We are talking about how to solve the debt crisis.

Audio is all about preferences and making choices that are dependant on having our preferances met.

If a stock power cord ticks all the right boxes for you, who am I to say that you are incorrect, or need to buy specialty cables?

I have no right to do so, nor is it my intent to persuade you to change your way of thinking and come over to "myside'.

There really shouldn't be any sides in this hobby .

No one should have to prove or disprove anything to anyone.

All the proof I need from you is that you enjoy the sound of your system using the gear that you chose to do the job .In other words, your system meets your expectations, and you are happy.

All the rest of us with aftermaket cords, fuses, etc, really want is to be able to express our experiences without being condemned or forced to prove them.

If we have found something that meets or exceeds our expectations and we are happy, and we haven't asked you to foot the bill, then why do you feel we need to provide some kind of proof for our happiness?

If I find something that has improved my system and want to share the experience with someonelse who may also try the item, where;'s the harm in that?

In my mind that's trying to further the hobby, it has hidden agenda, there's no monetary gain in doing so for me.

The only thing in it for me is the satifaction of someonelse discovering that the item did work for them too.

I fail to see what benefit it is to anyone who constantly denies that some things in audio can make a difference and make an improvemnt in sound and enjoyment.

Like I said 40 years I got into this hobby because of my love for music.
And to this day, it's still the reason I look for things to increase that enjoyment.

But then I am old and perhaps out of fashion.

I have three dedicated lines,two 30 amp and one 20 amp.

I run less than ten feet of 10 guage Romex to two Shunyata receptacles and one FIM.The panel is in my dedicated listening room, no HT., only 2 channel.

I use 3 Annaconda power cords and one Python CX, and use Shunyata Hydra 2 and 8.Also one DIY power cord using the top of the line Furutech recptacles and wires.

My sound has improved,and I don't need to have any measuring devices to prove by how much.
My best indicator is that I listen a lot longer, and my grin is perhaps wider than before I started cleaning up my power.
I should also add that I use HiFi Supremme fuses in all my electronics.

Yes power is a big deal to me.

It never used to be,I was unaware of how much it matters, and I never used power conditioners or upgraded power cords never mind dedicated lines, up until about seven years ago.

But I was happy,and used to scoff at the high cost of this stuff and the claims that were made about it.Things sounded great to my ears.In this case,my ears were playing tricks on me.Or perhaps I had just convinced myself that this was as good as it gets.I think we are all guilty of that from time to time.
Sometimes you need to be exposed to better sounding systems to really get a take on what you are missing out on.

For example,when I heard what paying attention to these things could do for the very first time.

I have a friend with some very expensive electronics and speakers .His system always was way above the rest of our group of audiophile friend's set ups.In fact the total cost of our gear wouldn't come close to his system, and we have some respectable products.
One evening it was sounding even better to all of us,yet nothing we could see had changed.

When pressed for an answer my friend revealed his use of Shunyata power cords and conditioning and a new dedicated line just for the electronics.

This was quite a number of years ago, and at first I thought such improvements would only be noticed on systems costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, as I had just experienced.

After borrowing some of the power cords and conditioners from a Shunyata dealer, I discovered that even a system much humbler could also benefit from improving the power to the gear.

And so began my journey, starting at the panel and ending at the fuse.

In my experience everytime you do something to improve the delivery of power to your gear, the sound improves along with it.
And having said that, it's cumulative.

Take one of the links out of the chain, anywhere in the chain, and the sound will not be as good as when all the pieces fit.
They work together and now for me, are as important as the speaker amp link. To my ears, improving the power cords make more of an audible improvement than spending large on upscale interconnects and speaker wires.

I presume that some folks think the substitution of a single power cord is all they need to do and if that doesn't knock their socks off they think it's all bunk.

A single power cord will improve the sound of what it's connected to, but you still have other gear in the chain.
If that gear uses standard plugs and receptacles and non dedicated lines,then the improvemnt that a single power cord makes will be less pronounced.

This is my take on why some folks are so anti power cord,they just don't go far enough.

If you can't afford to replace all your power cords with top grade ones, then the next best thing to do is make your own,using decent wire and nice upgraded plugs,make them all the same and upgrade your wall receptacles to at least Hubell industry or hospital grade.

If you then notice an improvement(and you should even at such a modest cash outlay)then you'll understand that taking it to the next level isn't just the stuff of fairy tales.

You can quit there or go forward and spend what you like.

Jeff have you ever tried any of the things Bradluke is talking about?

I would agree that if you haven't, then this is all voodoo to you.

You'll never hear a difference a quality power cord makes, until you try several of them.

And casual listening isn't going to cut it.

I am sure Jeff is not a casual, passive audio enthusiast.

You need to go old school, which is not in fashion anymore regrettably.

Audio today is all about the music and not the gear, yet how often is the music second fiddle to multi tasking?

Musak comes to mind.
Just a pleasant background to life's more important endeavours.

When someone posts that he made an improvement by doing this or that,it means to me that he is more than a music loving,albeit, background music loving, individual.

He is involved in the hobby, and is trying to find ways to further improve his listening pleasure, which he takes quite seriously, in my opinion.( I could have used IMOP, but I'm old school).

How can it be all about the music, if you are only willing to go just so far?Which saddly for most in this hobby is just turning the power on and running stock.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't find the sense in investing large amounts of money in music software, and then scrimp on the hardware to play it back on.

Somehow to me that defeats the "it's all about the music" concept.
Because without paying attention to quality gear and using aftermarket upgrades to improve the gear,the music suffers.

But, you have to be more than a music loving casual listener.

It has to be more than just about the music.

It has to be how the music reacts to the gear it is being played thru.

What good is thousands of dollars of recordings if the sound is sub standard because the gear is looked down upon?

Gearheads, as those who are chasing after the illusive audio perfection are often referred to,may have less invested in software, but they mostly enjoy more of the music that is on the recordings they own.

In other words, they are getting ,perhaps 30% more of the music they have paid for than the folks who settle for less when it comes to putting together a decent audio system.

I've always felt that until I get my system to the highest performance ,the music will suffer.If I have 9000 less lp's than the music lover so be it,it's how great the 1000 lp's that I own sound that matters most to me.

But I am old school.

Yahooo Rayooo, you'll be flying high!

These are better than my 4 Annaconda Helix versions.

I know because my friend replaced his Annacondas with the CX versions, and sad but true, they are better.

But then his system is much better than mine and is deserving of the best he can afford.

As I am sure yours must be.

I think trickery works both ways.

You can convince yourself that you don't hear any differences also.

Some of the reasons are, a lack of funds to swim with the big fish,gear that just isn't resolving enough to hear differences,no hands on experience, but you "know" it just can't be, relying on "facts" and acepting old and flawed blind listening tests as proof.
This one kills me.

You think our ears can be tricked into thinking that one power cord is better than the other, so we shouldn't trust our ears.
Yet, and this is what kills, you accept reports of people using their ears who fail to hear differnces as gospel.

Can you have it both ways?

Either you trust the ears or you don't.

If you don't trust the ears of those who say they hear improvemnts, then I'll say that I don't trust the ears of those who don't.

I'll close by stating that the majority of people who "believe" there can be no differences, are in fact the only folks who have developed their opinons based on a belief system.
As most of them have never even bothered to try upgraded power cords in their systems.
And why not?
Because they believe it will not work.

A belief based on no first hand experience,just acceptance of opinions from people with beliefs the same as their own.

Everything makes a difference and if a person can't hear a difference, then they or their gear are the reason behind it.

I can see the reasons why people like blind listening tests.
Visuals do cause folks to think that the big fat cables are the better ones, or that the big expensive speaker just has to sound the best, etc.

It's been proven with other things also,such as switching wine labels,and some folks thinking the 2 buck chuk in the upscale bottle was in fact the real deal.

Visual influences do marr one's perception.

And so it is when the cost of what you are comparing is made known.

Somehow the only blind listening tests that are ever mentioned are the tests where the "panel of experts" preferred the cheapest power cords for example.

In fact those tests are the only ones I've read about.The myth busters proving once again that costly power cords are ripp offs.

What about tests where the pricey cables are preferred?
Somehow ,saddly, we never seem to read about them.
It seems people prefer to read about giant killers and el cheapo cables beating out the high end brands.

Anyone posting anything positive about a name brand upgraded PC is either labeled a shill , a lunatic or both.

I know I've been called that.

I came to the effects of power cords and power upgrades a little late in my audio journey, and that;s a shame.

Had I known how much they play in the final sound of what's powered by them I never would have sold some fabulous gear over the years.

The flaws that I always attributed to the amps, for example, were really flaws in the delivery of the power to them.

I now understand the importance of good power delivery because I have recently enjoyed some rather modest power amps more than I did the costly exotic amps with no upgraded power delivery.

Those old amps if given the same upgraded power delivery that I now use, would surely swing things more in favour of them.But that's spilled milk and all part of the learning curve.

When people get serious about improving the gear they have using better power cords and improving the power to their gear, the search for the absolute sound tends to be over, and you spend more time enjoying the sound that you already have.

I'm not knocking the whole audio thing about swapping amps and speakers,the chase is a big part of the hobby and it's a learning experience.
And after you've been thru a lot of systems like I have you start to find out that changing A for B isn't the answer, because some things never change elsewhere and remain a constant, such as the same stock power cord, or wallplug set ups and this seriously hinders any efforts at improved sound from that new Stereophile A lister.

Sometimes it's quite obvious when you make a switch in components,and not as obvious as when everything is muddied up by poor power delivery.
So ,I am a bit sceptical of double blind tests for the above reason.

What I would find interesting would be a new test, whereby a panel of "experts" were left with the challenge of discerning if the music they heard was any different when played thru a dedicated line and a stock electrical line as found in most homes.

Then do a serious of tests with power cords and conditioners on the two different lines and see what the outcome is.

What I would assume is that there will be some folks who prefer the sound of cheap power cords and some who like the expensive ones and that no one will be able to tell which is which.
And what this means to me is that an expensive power cord hasn't been proven to be inferior to a cheap one.

It proves to me that preference of one over the other means that there were perceived differences between the cords.It doesn't prove that the cables all sounded alike.

If the panel says they all sound the same, then I would have to say that the panel of "experts" may have been influenced if they knew the cost of the cables.
Again the old myth buster mentality.
So I wouldn't disclose the cost of the cables in the test, because this would have just as much influence on the tests outcome as seeing the cables and knowing what brands they were.

My only beef with DBT is that I don't think that prior tests were an accurate indication of anything, and the more information given to the panels, the more flawed the tests.

Somehow the DBT hasn't been revisted in a few years, and only these old "anti" everything expensive ones are all that is reported and held as gospel.

I think it's time for some new ones,based on a few of the guidelines I've mentioned.

Eventhough I know that in the end it's all about preference, at least the playing field won't be skewed with lousy noisey power straight from the wall.

I am certain that the comparison of the results of power cords tested on both lines would be intersting to say the least.

When I started out in this hobby I would read the reviews and if something was on my wish list I made apoint of travelling to a shop that would allow me to listen.

I can't say my impressions were as glowing as most of the reviews, but then as I started to get more experienece I started to tune in some of the things they were talking about, and with some mentoring from some more well healed and knowledgeable audiophiles, I began to separate the mumbo from the jumbo.

Much the same with power cords, lots of mumbo jumbo.Much has been written about their effects and yet there's still a few folks who say they can't make any difference.
Have they tried them?
Usually not,they just know better than to waste any money on them.

Now I've even read that the molded power cords are superior because they won't corrode as fast, hence degrade the sound.

Ever look at the inside of the cheap molded power cords?
Not a pretty sight, nor do they make the best case for quality materials or workmanship.

Sorry I'll take a bit of corrosion that I can clean and see before a plug with hidden innards of dubious quality.

I don't know how air tight my Shunyata Annacondas are, or if they have degraded over time from inner corosion.
Perhaps someone from Shunyata could shed some light on this latest bit of paranoia.

What I do know and not believe is that they sound better than any of my previous power cords,and that includes the molded ones and any of my DIY power cords.

And in a direct comparison of Shunyata power cords using headphones,as I moved up the line, the better the sound got.

I heard it and once heard, I couldn't go down the line.
If there were no differences I could have saved a bundle and stayed at the entry level.

I didn't configure my entire system with them for any other reason other than that they made the system sound better than without them.

Everything has a sonic set of strengths and weaknesses.
You like some more than others, to say that a power cord is just a tone control is only partly true and there's no shame in that if the power cord lets the all tone thru and doesn't hinder it, as so many mediocre molded cords do.

If a power cord adds sparkle or adds more meat,that's not to say that it's a fault of the power cord, just proof they can all interact differently with what they are plugged into.Proof they are not the same, and nice to know that we don't have to settle for whatever "colour" the molded ones are giving us.

If stock power cords are fine for you, then use them, they cost you nothing, they were free, they do the job of bringing your gear to life, they will allow the music to play.

But if you can afford to spend a little or a lot more for some aftermarket power cords, the sky is the limit to what music is yet to be heard.

I know a few folks who stay on the merry go round and swap out amps all the time and are never satisfied with the new amp purchase.

I wonder if the reason lies with the stock molded power cord they refuse to part with and insist is perfectly suitable for the job?

Jeff, our hobby is about sound.

Sure measurements matter,and so it goes.
Some folks are about sound, some are about measurements and seldom do the twain meet.

Sort of like politics.

Now , I think that your workplace would be the ideal location to insert a few upgraded power cords.

Then you can "listen" to hear the difference they make.

Oh, sorry about that,in your case it's not about the sound is it,so you are stuck with trying to let the measurements "speak" to you.

Like I said , two different worlds.

Jeff have you ever heard the sound that measurements make ?

Do measuring instruments have a sound,like amplifiers do?

Look at how many different sounding amplifiers there are today, that on paper all measure the same.

Some things have yet to be measured and sound is one of them.

No one has heard the perfect replica of the original event and there is no absolute benchmark of what it is.

Unlike the lab gear you hold in such high regard, hifi gear isn't just a function of meeting the specs.

You'll hear what bad specs sound like and what good specs sound like, and sometimes a poorly speced amp(like some SET amps) sounds more realistic inspite of this. anomoly.

But this is just falling on deaf ears(literally) if you feel that all amps sound the same.

And the same can be said for power cords.

I know of one manufacturer of a line conditioner who now sources his wire direct from Germany because it not only measured better than what he had been using, but also sounds better.

This wire is the type of wire that is used in several research labs in Germany.
The manufacturer of the line conditioners was a cable skeptic,until he came across this wire.He revamped his product and now uses this industrial wire exclusively.

Audio is just a hobby sideline from his real profession as an industrial engineer setting up lab measuring devices throughout the world.Devices whose reliabilty depend on the quality of the electricity being fed into it.

The man is Ed Wolkow, his sideline is Foundation Research.

The company isn't well known outside of Canada,which is mainly due to the limited runs of the conditioners the result of extensive time spent in the real world outside of our little niche group of audiophiles.

You perhaps should pick up the latest edition of 'Phile- and read M.Fremers description of the new Shunyata power conditioners and learn about DTCD, which is the first device to be able to produce the kind of validation you are seeking.

He states the naysayers will still have their doubts even when confronted with the first measurable differences between power cords(and fuses), but they wanted proof, so here it is.

Perhaps you will find the new edition of Phile well worth the cost of the mag, or you could read it for free at the nearest Chapters.
I am not out to sell magazines for anyone.

I could say that my intent is just to enlighten others who have yet to discover the merits of a decent power cord and for the fence sitters to try one for themselves and make up their own minds.

I gain nothing by sharing my positive expereince,and am at a loss why others so persistantly deny that there can be any difference, good or bad.What's in it for them to do so?

You've stated, all components change over the years.At least you acknowledge that fact, most power cord deniers won't even go that far and say the whole "burn in" thing is a hoax.

So perhaps it's time for you to actually go out and borrow a decent power cord and have a listen.You don't have to buy one, there are lots of companies with trial periods and let's not forget to support our local brick and mortar audio stores.

My local store allowed me to audition power cords and over the course of a few days, (not one switch, a quick listen and out it goes)you get the feel for what the cable is doing.

At the very least, you could butcher one of those molded PC's and put a couple of decent ends on it and then compare that to a stock power cord.

If you can notice a difference between a hot rodded and stock PC, then you should have a bit of an idea about what you can expect from the better power cords.

Or like I said you could pick up the latest Stereophile and pick up where you left off.

Some things have changed in the interim.

Can't a listen to a decent power cord be all the proof you need?

The EE or electronic trade mags, of which I have as much knowledge of as you have of the latest TAS or Stereophile audio mags,in my estimation, (though with no hard evidence to support this claim), would most likely side with your current stand on upgraded power cords, so in my world each magazine ,audio or EE, would cancel the other out.

You're still left choosing sides, but also still in the dark, because you haven't taken the next step(as far as I know) to actually try a decent power cord on decent gear.
Until you do, all anyone has are two different viewpoints from two different magazines.

The proof is always in the pudding, and if one adheres to scientific priciples, one should do the experiment for themselves .

I am at a loss about the Shunyata measuring device.
But then I don't need measuremnts to back up or disprove what my ears are telling me.

What I have heard with my ears is that entry level Snakes are better than stock PC's and the further up the line the better the Shunyata PC are at getting out of the way and letting more of the music thru.If I'd heard no difference I wouldn't have spent the money, and I didn't convince myself after the deal was done.I went back and bought more when I heard the improvement one made in my system,

Someone has mentioned that it's absurd to use $2000.00 power cords on gear that costs less than the cables.

In theory that makes absolute sense and there's lot's of examples one could make, such as putting the most expensive wheels and performance tires on a Smart Two.

But what if those tires just happen to make the car perform better?

This is the point I try to make.
Over and over.

Most of the time we never have heard how good our gear is because we compromise it with chep wires,and do nothing about all the stuff that "shouldn't have any effect on the sound".

Ever tried an IsoClean or Hi Fi Supreme fuse in any of your gear?

I use them, and when I posted someplace else that they improved my sound, all I got back was the same kind of negative response you get when you post such findings.
At one point I offered to pay for a fuse just so a denier could have a listen and make up his own mind.
That was under $100.00, which I feel isn't a great amount of money to spend on something that will improve your sound.

But, some folks refuse to even try if there is no cost to them or any strings attached.

I only can speculate the reasons why someone would refuse an offer like that, but refuse they did, and refuse any demonstrations of demagging lps and cd's that I offered.

Again they knew these things can't work, even without ever trying them.

Where's the science in that?
Talk about tweaks being all about beliefs?
Denying the benefits of upgraded PC, fuses etc, without trying them is based on nothing but a set of beliefs that says they can't work.
And why?
Because I haven't seen any scientific proof in any of (my)EE journals.

Shunyata to their credit has tried to offer proof that the differences some of us hear can be shown in measurements.
But obviously that is not enough.

For me , irregardless of hype or scientific proof,if I am curious about something I want to know for myself if it works with what I own, and if it does I'll buy it.

Now just because I use a $2000.00 PC and a $100.00 fuse on a $1200.00 2 watt SET amp,why I do so is not just because I can afford to and it's not just about bragging rights(riddicule and hilarious outburts are more like what I expect)I do so because they make that amp sound better than the stock fuse and power cord did.

And the nice thing about upgraded power cords,you can use them on the next amp upgrade and know that the new amp will also be performing as best it can.
So you buy good once and forget it.

If there is any caveat it's that if the other PC are not improved those will seriously limit the performance of the newest upgraded one.The old weakest link advice.

I am not suggesting that everyone goes out and does what I did and run all Annacondas, but when you hear the improvemnt one makes, you want that for all your gear, and the effects are cumulative.

In fact when one starts to upgrade the power delivery starting at the panel with dedicated lines, 20 amp fuses and ten guage solid core wiring, adding the upgraded PC is the final touch.

And every component upgrade (if you still think you need to)will be easier to tell if it is an upgrade or not.

I don't know if any of the EE or electrical journals that you read mention the importanace of such things,but the mags I read do.

What gets me is that the folks who complain the most are the ones who have never even audtioned a decent power cord.

You can't really think you'll be taken seriously if you haven't any experience with power cords.

Saying they can't make a difference, to me,makes me think they were the same types of individuals who claimed that man can't fly.

Fortunately for us, the brothers Wright weren't paying attention to them.

Sorry I was doing some catch up reading on this thread and a page back someone asked about demagging cd's and lps'.

I do both and yes the effect is the same if you use a MC or MM cartridge.
The better the cartridge the better the effect.

Demagging , to my ears, take the jumble out of the music and re-aligns things, sort of does some house cleaning.

No one has ever said they couldn't hear the improvement, regular earred folks and the golden ears, young and old male or female, they all notice that the sound became clearer.

Why it works is really of no concern to me.There are explanations out there for folks who are serious enough to find an answer.I figure it's up to those folks to seek it out not for me to spoon feed them.
But of course they would have to be serious about this.

But as nice as it is to read about power cords and demagging etc,it's necessary to listen for yourself and then come to a conclusion.

I can no more say that you will hear the difference as I can say that you can not.

It's something you have to be willing to experience, and for some folks that's asking too much.

It's so much easier and simpler to take it out of the box plug it into the wall with the attached wires, and play some tunes.
Ahh the simpler times, I was there.
Enjoyed the music.

Now my system is more complex.I had to invest time and money into it.

And what I found out was that the music I was listening to was also more complex and filled with detail I didn't know was even missing before.