Power conditioner help

I have only used PS Audio power products ...due to periodic discounts I took advantage of over the past 10 years (I recently bought a factory-new P10 for $2500). I have several PowerPlants from the "Premier" to the P10. They all deliver the goods on both clean power and reserve/buffered power. I'm sure —based on reading reviews over many years— that the Torus/Brystons are at least similar in quality/results.

I have spoken with PS Audio engineers both OTP and in person. Smart company, good products ...and they are happy to answer technical questions. If you are in the Denver area for RMAF ...take an extra day and head to Boulder to visit the numerous audio companies located there. PSAudio, Avalon, Boulder,... it's a gold mine and they are very friendly and helpful.

I'm just patient ...and flexible. When I see a great deal in the space I am looking, I act. I currently have tube amps from Ayon Audio (Triton III), Raven (Blackhawk LE) and Rogue (Cronus Magnum). The Ayon is incredible with great tubes, likewise the Raven ...but a bit thinner (and 1/4th the price).

@herndonb I have not experienced any current limitation with my P10. In fact, just the opposite: It buffers power in the large transformer. By doing this it makes that power available when it is needed. Your wall socket simply does not. If your audio gear has over-sized transformers, it also does some of this but it will starve itself faster without a device such as a PS Audio power plant or a Torus/Bryson... Now, if you have TOO much high-current gear plugged into it, you can expect to get different results, eh? Hence, I use the biggest such device and undersubscribe it by not plugging everything into a single one. In my case I am running at less than 750va, and the P10 is capable of 1500va (if I recall correctly). That is plenty of in-the-trandformer buffer for my 100w Ayon and my CD, network player and TT.

I commented earlier (above) on this, but I am simply astonished at the comments that poo-poo buffering power regenerators. Not a single negative comment rings true in my personal experience over at least 10 years of use with numerous different regenerators and audio gear. In fact ...JUST THE OPPOSITE: Every positive quality of my audio gear is enhanced and whatever power-noise there was is ...gone gone gone. 

I can only guess that those who did not get these results either oversubscribed their power regenerator or had other issues in their systems. I'd love to hear more specific information about what you used, and your audio stack. Otherwise, based on my experience and those I trust I have to say you are way off base. Please explain...

@reynolds853 [ shhh! don’t tell them how great an amp the Ayon Triton III is... I pulled the superior but failure-prone original Ayon KT88 BTSX tubes (@$180 each) and am just now getting the replacement Gold Lions into the fully-burned-in state. I’ll go back to the Ayon BTSX tubes, but the Gold Lions sound very nice now and after emailing back-and-forth with Ayon I now know that my Triton III is also factory-ready for KT150 tubes. So, that’s the next experiment. ...I’ll bet they sound great with the additional benefits of my power regenerator, eh? (grin...) ]

@jay23 What is behind my attitude is the disconnect between my experiences, the experiences of those I know and in contrast what a few posts here stated. Taken together they do not agree: Hence the question — what gear, what circumstances?

I asked that because I do think it possible to get different results, but clean power is clean power and an abundance of clean power to draw-down (buffered/stored) in a transformer during dynamic passages is power you did not otherwise have on tap through the wall. So, what were the circumstances? Unless the answer is just opinion or hand waving, it’s an answer to be mentally plotted in a space of appropriate/inappropriate uses for power regenerators.

To date, no negative experience I have read of rises above "opinion", I’m looking for more than just "good", "bad", made my music "sound green"... I can’t process those in a meaningful way because I have come to fear opinions as completely subjective.

[Subjective isn’t bad, it’s just "thin" unless it comes with an abundance of descriptors such that the reader can relate to the opinion as a substantial one rather than someone at the end of a keyboard just being ...social and saying "it’s bad for music listening" ...the question remains: why? ...After all, it is just clean and abundant power. These discussions sometimes remind me of politics, a nasty topic that is light on fact, ignores fact, or builds on fact: the three are quite different. Sorry for bringing it up, but it is just an example.]

Given the wealth of technical material I have read on the topic over several years, and given the experiences I pointed to: How is it possible that the addition of an appropriately-sized power regenerator can generate a negative music listening experience? (I am open to any answer that informs, rather than a brush-back answer.)

This is a very interesting thread. As far as balanced power goes, I have only read a little about this and all of it has been vendor material. I have yet to get an audio amp manufacturer (other than PS Audio) to weigh in, and would welcome that.

@jay23 Thank you for the excellent video which brilliantly shows one of the problems when "everything in the chain" needs to be up to a minimal level. I completely understand the demonstrated example where the power cord was sub-par in terms of denying the meter the full current that would otherwise be available.

You are correct: I should get such a meter and perform an electrical test at the wall outlet and again at a P10 outlet. That would be informative in terms of what "load" the P10 presents. ...However, what is a "huge transformer" from a load perspective? Certainly it presents a loss in terms of consuming current, but it also buffers current in its magnetic core.

If I understand simple electrical theory sufficiently, then that loss is an issue when the amp draw approaches the effective current limit at the component/amp socket. If I understand this, that means we need a properly sized power regenerator that exceeds the amp draw by some not-by-myself-understood amount of unused current. For my Ayon and other components, these are drawing no more than 750va ...and the P10 is capable of 1500va — a 50% excess of power is available.

Did I get that right? If so, where is the starving?

So, based on comments here and elsewhere I called Transparent and asked about their power conditioners. The young guy was very nice, and he tried to be helpful but alas, he could not give me a technical explanation for his marketing/sales spiel. This is the problem I have when I call most audio companies and ask for help in understanding their benefits at a technical level. For power conditioning gear I really expect to get my basic questions answered.

What I got was that the Transparent gear uses a parallel approach in how they voltage clamp and remove transients/noise. I heard the name "avalanche diode" repeatedly, but when I asked how that worked... no information. I asked him to contrast their approach with the approach that power regenerators take, and he said "we don’t really follow other vendors in this space" -- a fair statement, but I was a bit put off as well. I do not want to create a negative impression about my experience: But I did not get technical enlightenment on much of what Transparent does or how the overall category or power conditioners works and (especially) how they might negatively impact music.

What I will say is that most of what I have read and most of what I have heard strikes me as non-technical and not empirical at all. I simply want to know why some people (Transparent sales included) firmly state that when they listen to audio gear through a regenerator they believe that the sound is constricted and the sound stage suffers. I take this as BS. The only way that can happen is if the device itself restricts the FULL CURRENT THAT THE ATTACHED AUDIO GEAR NEEDS. If your regenerator provides more than the maximum draw, how is it restricting anything? In fact I’ll go further and say that if the regenerator transformer is large enough, you will get more power at peak sections of music than the wall would be able to provide!

So, if you really understand what is happening: Please explain it ...in technical terms. (Remember, I have not suffered this problem with my regenerators, and my attached audio gear does not draw more than 50% of the regenerator’s rated capabilities. It is power, it is ample and it is clean power. Please explain.)