Power Cable Break In - Such a Change!

Perhaps there is no current viable device that will measure our sonic preference? I mean all we have is Ohms law. If you're hearing and your system is transparent enough, most people will be able to detect the differences. Why such a denier? Try it.

I might.

 

OH, and: it takes some time for the dielectric to form, take a charge, polarize, or however one chooses to define the process, when a dielectric is subjected to electromagnetic waves, which affects the Poynting vectors, measurably/predictably.

              The lower the material’s dielectric constant: the longer that takes.

At 60Hz, that is a huge time.

I can abide that speaker cable playing the 1kHz or 10-20 kHz can do all that, but 60Hz is very low.  

Maybe being on 50Hz makes it less of a problem?

My ears are my best measurement.

The point was that they are not a measurement. It is called a subjective experience.

The questions was:

I don’t understand, with the descriptors often used for cables, how we don’t have clear measurements showing the “dramatic changes” users report hearing. I’m not suggesting testing the cable, but rather, testing the sound of cable 1 from the LP, and then contrasting that with the sound of cable 2 measured from the identical location? It’s easy to eliminate the duplicate sounds from both leaving just what has changed. The tighter bass, or the better/ different midrange, or airier highs, etc, should easily come through, right? 
 

So, why hasn’t that been done? Why has no cable manufacture shown this? For that matter, what proper test is there, video, showing people clearly able to identify cable 1 from 2? Especially considering there is “such a drastic difference?” Especially considering one cable can cost 10 bucks vs. 4K and more? 

…

Don’t try to equate flowery words, trustworthy ears, marketing jargon with people wanting to understand if something is happening, and then what it is.
The opening sentance started out with “I don’t understand …”, so I guess your point was that the person cannot understand with having the golden ears?

Chris knows.  His experiences dovetail with my own.  Teflon is a PITA when it comes to break-in... hours and hours and hours.  Polypropylene is better when it comes to time.  Polyethylene takes less time, yet.  Foamed versions of each are quicker.  Thing is, they all sound different.  Teflon is clean and "fast" in character.  Polyethylene is the most organic, with polypropylene somewhere between in sonics

What about cotton then?

Both would be ideal.

I could picture a power cord possibly helping with the power amp, but I doubt it would do anything on the preamp or phono stages I have.

But I think it is better to sell the power amp, take the money I would piss away on a cable, and just go and get a better power amp.

We should be able to make a list of what amp sound better with a power cable and which do not.
Maybe we should do that? And then people can buy the gear that generally doesn’t benefit from them?

@ozzy out of interest how much $ do the conditioners and (what is it 3-4 power cables?) set you back?

I suspect with 2-4 interconnects, and 3-4 power cables it could be getting to a large percentage of my front and cost.

It is likely easier, in an objective sense, to measure the signal at teh speaker terminals. Than using the sound itself.

It may be easier in an anechoic chamber as we at least get rid of the comb of the multiple bounces.

To be clear, I’m not saying measure the cable, but record the sound and eliminate what is the same. Those audible differences can be measured. (Hell, toeing a speaker out on one side can be measured, so why not this?) 

That is a case in point, where the signal is identical, And can we detune highs and increase the reflections, by decreasing the toe in. 

??

It is not only the crystal structure that is changing with current. The diode effect has influence on the directivity of the cord, the saturation of the diëlektricum acts as an capacitor on the time domain and varies after burn-in. And then there are easier measurable things like the EMIRFI contribution/blocking attributes of the cord (on the surrounding cords for example) next to L,C,R measurements.

I can get the point of abiding this is true, for say, a speaker cable. But what sorts of time domain (smearing?) is in a 60Hz power cable that makes it into the power amp?

This thread reads is like a group therapy session. And it is getting apparent that out crowd has not experienced the effect.

Thanks @ozzy 

I am pretty sure that my valve amps don’t need them, because they play for many seconds after the power is switched off.

And on the preamp and phono side I doubt they would do much…(?)

Are most people that find pleasure with them on SS electronics?

Spock actually used very expensive components and cables in his system, and strongly believed in break-in as essential... 

Yep…
In a process he called vulcanisation.

That video is not an explanation of complex physics, it’s pseudoscientific baloney.

The soft voice and accent makes it sound credible though.

holmz,

I’m not sure I or anyone else can say anything that will change your mind. That’s ok enjoy what you have!

While I am skeptical, I would be very interested if it did work, and also the theory of how.

But I think that you are correct in that what people say will not likely move the skeptics.
It would likely take a measurement showing some difference… or some A/B deal where at least one person can identify whether it has the power cable or not, say 10 times of of 12.

@ozzy 
None the less, I’m happy it is working for you sir.

@ozzy yeah but… I was responding to @jpeters568 question of why can/t it be measured and shown.
I provided the simplest way that I would approach it.

You are seeming to suggest that the question of @jpeters568 cannot be answered with measurements and can only be done with ears. Did I capture that correctly?

Most of my front end gear (old and new) use outboard power supplies that convert the AC.to DC. So I would doubt that there is a effect on the DC, but it could be measured I suppose.
(The power amp is where I would expect an issue could exist.)

But to the subject at hand, okay, I accept the hypothesis that you can't measure cables traditionally to find a difference in sound. Then, observation should be used next. And the observed things are that the bass is tighter, or the midrange more full, or the highs are more airy. Those are things that can be measured. Why have we not done that? Null tests can prove those differences, So why haven't the cable manufactures themselves performed these experiments? Or published these results? 

There is pretty much one answer that is obvious.
If I was making these things and found, possibly the worst amp, and it made a difference, then I would be using that to show the effect.

Would you prefer equipment that measures well or sounds better? 

In the case of the power cable, I would like to see it test as being different.

We can also argue whether more distortion sound better, but in general I would strive for measuring well.

Maybe with the amplifier one can say, “Ok the front end is high fidelity and is neutral with low distortion,” and then consciously say… “I am going to now spice it up with a tube amp.”

If every piece of gear is spicing things up, and morning away from neutral fidelity, then it gets to be a recipe of chance, that could be hard to repeat.

In any case, as mentioned previously, we have no actual proof that anything is happening from the manufacturers… which seems odd.

I can take a preamp with a Stereophile published graph showing a minimum of 0.03 % THD+N and agonise whether going to a different one with 0.02% THD+N graph is worth the cost… but I have no way to understand what might happen with a power cable. It is just described with words.

As ANYONE, that has the slightest inkling of how the process works, knows:  "...when science doesn't have an *ANSWER," it comes up with a, "THEORY".

              *ie: To that other 96% of this universe, Science can't explain

I heard a quote the other day that described science as mostly “coming up with questions.”  Then various hypothesis are investigated in order to describe what is happening and correlate the observations with reality. As the hypothesis are evolved, then we understand how things work, and can replicate/repeat these findings.

There may be a hypothesis as to why a cable might produce a change, but it needs to be repeated and measured to get to the point where the manufacturers can claim that they work, how they work, and when they may not work.

The hypothesis of crystal structure changes seems reasonable, but it would be more compelling with before and after microscope images showing that the crystals in fact changed.

Yeah @ozzy I speared off thinking about the higher freq interconnects and speaker cables.

As clockwork, the newest Dragon now has about 125 hours on it and it is starting to open up and excel

Word!

You’re plugging into PowerPoint too I suppose.

I only have a TV input that is SS, and an old CD player which is getting rehabilitated.

The preamp and phono amp are both tube units.

My amps are also tube.

Do they also sport the aftermarket cords?
And deemed to make a difference?

But I am using the Dragons powering my AudioQuest (HC) power conditioner and 2 other solid-state devices.

(or…) Was the main benefit on the 2 other SS devices?