... POORLY RECORDED SONGS THAT ...

Hi Whart

I use tunable systems, so I simply adjust per recording when I want to. Doing this I very rarely experience bad recordings.

Hi n80

Not a problem at all, this is what I do.

Those will be easy to reference for me. Let me call my store and see if they have them in stock or if I need to order.

mg

Hi n80

Not dense at all.

"But if you take a recording with a compressed dynamic range how can you expand the range beyond what exists on the recording?"

You can’t. However if your setup is only playing 1/10 of the content there’s a ton of dynamic range your not getting to from the beginning.

What recording are you referring to? I can get the recording and test it for you.

Almost all recordings I test for folks it turns out that their soundstage is limiting the recordings "real space". If the harmonics are shut down on that setting it sounds very compressed until the stage is opened up.

Let me put it this way, your system is a tool, a variable tool.

mg

Hi Guys

The average playback system (pre-tuning) plays about 1/10 of the recorded content of the source. Note that this number did not come from me only, but from others including me, who have researched and tested this same topic "real space". Real space is the actual space of a recording. Every recording has "real space/real size". Every recording has it’s own "real space" content that differs per recording. I have given the term "recorded code" to this content to make it easier to comprehend, but this understanding goes back to the beginning of the playback soundstage, mono, stereo and multi-channel.

In the 1990’s I toured with several audio reviewers to other reviewer’s systems uncovering the real space of given recordings. We tuned these systems, per recording, using a variable method called "Tuning". Tuning has 3 main ingredients Acoustical, Mechanical and Electrical, all of which host the playback signal at sometime during the audio pathway. Everywhere along the audio pathway is the physical part called the "Audio Chain". Anytime we make a change to the audio chain we affect the audio pathway.

To break it down we have the "recorded code" that becomes the "audio code" once the signal becomes physical (analog) as it makes contact with physical mechanical conduits (parts that host the signal). As the signal travels through the audio pathway it makes contact with the each part of the chain. The audio code is affected by the four fundamental interactions of nature (look up fundamental forces) as it travels making the signal itself variable. Tuning is how we adjust the signal.

michael

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t268-the-audio-code

Hi n80

Just ordered Sound & Color, so we'll start with that. Also picking up Boys & Girls since they had a deal. I'll see if I can find a cheaper copy of Young and Dangerous.

I'll let you know when I get them on the system.

mg

"I too would like to know how any system can compensate for elements in a bad recording"

The teaching of the "recorded code" has been limited at best when it comes to quality of recordings. I would say we need to fault the teachers of the hobby, whom ever they are. It also seems that when it comes to compression, dynamic range and efficiencies the explanations are not in line with the actual "doing" of the audio chain. Dynamic range is not necessarily a function of recording compression (limiting) and efficiency but somehow has turned into an excuse for poor performance in playback systems. The term "revealing system" has been used as the justification of a system not being able to play a recordings content, when not being able to play any recording is a function of content being or not being in tune. If your system is not "in-tune" with recording content the music will sound "out of tune". It doesn’t matter what is considered good or bad engineering.

Take your "great" sounding recordings to another system and it will sound different (many times majorly different). Why does it sound so different is a function of system tuning. HEA got off track when they went to discrete system component matching. Here’s why, all recordings have a different recorded code and sound different from each other when played on a system with only one setting.

Let's take any recording and play it at any studio or home setting in the world. Now let's take that same recording and play it in any other studio or home setting, guess what, it sounds different. Does that make the recording or system bad? Of course not, it makes every setup different sounding.

michael

Received my "Sound and Color" a couple of days ago. I was working on Mick Ronson recordings so needed to finish that up first. Put the SC recording on for it's first pass. I usually let the system make about 3 passes before I start referencing, but could hear certain things right off the bat before getting serious.

Sound and Color works best, in my room, with the subwoofer crossed at around 68-72 hz. If your not able to adjust that range you might find the stage too shallow for you. A lot of modern recordings can fall apart easy without the use of a good subwoofer.

The recording has no problem filling the soundstage without black holes. If a recording is over compressed black holes will appear in the stage when you go to stretch the depth of the stage. Again no holes.

Next I looked for a percussion instrument to follow. On the 3rd track I found a nice cymbal splash that covered the stage front to back and left to right. This is another sign that the playback compression is ok and not squeezed.

You can clearly hear compression used as an affect applied to certain parts of vocals for example, but that's an on purpose effect and not part of the general soundstage presentation.

I'll give an overall soundstage size after a couple of play throughs, but the stage itself is not compressed on the recording. So far that is.

michael

Hi n80

I'm on my 4th pass on this recording and no dynamic range problems what so ever, so it's definitely your system's setup. Cool recording btw!

mg

Hi n80

I'm glad your liking Sound & Color more, I messed around with it off and on today. Pretty cool recording! Thanks for turning me on to it.

I'm not having any problem with the bass, kind of reminds me of "FUN". Once tuned in a little it's an electronic membrane type of sound. I can see where someone would say distorted till they get it dialed in, but when tuned in it blends nicely.

I'm able to turn mine up or down without any issues as long as I adjust the bottom slightly.

michael

Hi n80

"So would you say that with the right system tuning the quality of the recording, in terms of DR compression and loudness, is of no real consequence?"

DRD and quality of a recording are two different issues that somehow got mixed together. Or at least mixed together in the mind of the guy spending bucks on a typical HEA system after "discrete systems" were pushed by the reviewers and certain designers. Basically the whole discrete system era was incredibly flawed and High End Audio has never recovered, they just keep digging the hole deeper until HEA is no more. BTW the reviewers who no longer review admit to the failed push of non-flexible systems.

The interesting part for myself is watching the industry starting to turn back to Tuning. There has always been listeners who understand that all recordings have their own unique set of values that require tuning. Take almost any recording and give it to 100 users. You'll find that this recording will rank differently depending on how someone's system is tuned in. What is not universally understood, with the current HEA audiophile, is that most of the audiophiles have moved on from discrete "one sound system" setups and from these forums and magazines that support them.

HEA (High End Audio) has been in rapid decline mode since the late 1990's. It's not because recordings are bad, it's because a system that only produces one sound can't play all these different sounds without some type of adjusting. In other words there's no auto adjust in "discrete audio" only thousands of different sounding systems, and the pushers of these systems. This doesn't make any component good or bad, or better or worse. It simply means if your going to play a large range of recording types you need a method of tuning that allows you the flexibility needed.

Michael

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/