Planar Speakers and Diffusors

audiokinesis

2,704 posts

03-28-2024 at 11:26am 

… making specific acoustic treatment recommendations is something that I’ve learned to leave to the pros because they can make a MUCH bigger improvement than I can. If you don’t have anyone in mind I recommend Jeff Hedback of Hedback Designed Acoustics, he’s a multi-award-winning studio designer who also does home audio, and he’s still affordable. He works remotely.

Duke

dipole speaker dealer for 25 years, multidirectional speaker manufacturer for 16 years

This seems like highly sage advice. The outfit to advise needs familiarity with this kind of speaker behavior. It’s a fairly new brand and it’s unclear what kind(s) of room(s) they’re tested for. Rear reflectors in hotel demos suggests concrete/other solid structures being the design’s preferred residence. I am well aware that in my own case, not using a treatment specialist but receiving input from several after the fact, I surely got lucky more than I got things right by actually knowing enough myself 😉

Real research is designing, trying, alternating, all preferably in the presence of proper controls. Preparatory stages necessitate digesting a lot of modeling and/ or mathematical white papers (admittedly interesting to me, but with equations often over my head). Real research can only very rarely if ever be had by reading product web pages or fora descriptions about things like diffusers. Specialists can be special assets in this area! So yeah, my long and somewhat abrasive way of saying I agree with @audiokinesis 

ozzy OP

7,170 posts

03-28-2024 at 12:15am 

mijostyn,benanders

Thank you for your comments they are welcome and interesting but seem to be off track from my original question.

…

Clarisys speakers play best with minimum room treatments. BTW, my ceilings and walls are all internally insulated and covered with double 5/8" drywall. The floor is concrete covered by carpet with no padding.

I am interested in diffusors because from what I have researched they are supposed to make the soundstage even larger. But I don’t know if that would be a plus, thus my initial post and question.

ozzy

Not off track - I think you misunderstood me @ozzy  - I suggested some form of diffuser (complex-surface reflector) over the tv. Others recommended blankets; I wouldn’t tend to agree with that in your case. That’s why I recommended something rigid but basic, like blinds, that could be poised non-permanently and adjusted experimentally. It seems very unlikely that you will get a satisfactory result from buying a prefabricated diffuser product without trying more basic approaches first (and/or taking input from a qualified acoustician on treatments for your specific setup). 

I also recommended UNtreating your floor just to see what effect it has - laying down some large panels of wood to make the vertical room boundaries more alike. Many people carpet the floor, but very few give parallel treatment to the ceiling. Perhaps this would have no effect, but conversely it could have considerable effect. And laying down some large thin wood panels on the floor would be much more temporary and cheap than… carpeting the ceiling! 😆

If wood panels on the floor reduce your enjoyment, that might tell you something about your fully exposed ceiling. Or not…

While you wait to find or connect with the relevant treatment specialist, there are many amateur mods you can do on the cheap, non-permanently, to help yourself learn what works best. Bear in mind, again, I agree that bass absorbers may not be effective solutions in your case especially if you want to increase soundstage. The issue with your walls/ceilings is that they already work more like low bass traps than not, in a sense, by letting lowest frequencies pass through. Concrete or steel-walled rooms would not have this “issue” and it might be an unavoidable shortcoming for your speakers if they need those manufacturer-recommended concrete boundaries for reinforcing frequencies between ~45 - 60/80/whatever Hz they cover, that’s not being calibrated for room boundary frequency-dependent permeability. All stuff that hopefully the specialist can discuss if you aren’t in a position to try higher-frequency (digital) bass management. Diffusers might make a difference in higher frequencies, but for lower bass the room boundaries or signal processing (lack thereof) might matter more when it comes to conveying soundstage per the recording/master of choice.

@ozzy what are you intending to change with diffusers?

From the setup pics, the main issues I’d predict are (1) proximity to the sidewalls (seems the company recommends more space between speaker x side boundaries?), (2) fully carpeted floor (might cause lopsided response for speakers that benefit from relatively lively rooms?) and (3) that huge tv.

I’m not sure you can address (1) or (2), or what kind of difference diffusers might render if (1) and (2) are even real issues at all.

Betting you’d do well to get some lightweight softwood blinds or other slats to hang over that tv. I suspect the front wall bounce may be extreme.

ozzy OP

7,161 posts

03-27-2024 at 06:14am

This is a recent post from the Audio Sharks Forum by SunCoast Audio about the Clarisys speakers.

"Clarisys are panels, dipoles, so the sound is coming out the front and back. It doesn’t care what’s on the side walls as its radiation pattern is unlike a box speaker or Omni. With Clarisys, unlike some of it’s competitors (or what some claim to be full ribbon - which are really Mylar in the bass), from the lowest note to the highest note, the driver material is identical. This creates a very coherent sound. The entire frequency range is one material."

I intend no offense to SunCoast Audio as I don’t know them and have no conflict of interest, but that quote reads more like dealer promo than tutorial physics-based guidance.

The Clarysis company website claims live rooms with walls of concrete or similar to be ideal, so your drywall @ozzy probably matters, and possibly not in an ideal way.
My own speakers aren’t planar but do behave similarly in some ways. One meter behind them is a full-wall window, about 14’ x 8’ of glass. Being able to play with a bank of wood blinds the same size gives interesting results that vary in favorability depending on the person listening, but no one has favored fully exposed glass. That’s why I suggested trying something a bit less reflective than glass (tv) and a bit more diffusive than a flat plane (of said glass). Wouldn’t cost you much to try.

A potential issue I see in the way these speakers are designed (basically one driver mechanism for all frequencies? Cool! And, hmmm…) is how they manage to balance the whole bandwidth at MLP distance. It’s known the +/- 3dB ratings given for speakers don’t always hold strong outside of the 1m measuring pocket, so if Clarysis are “down” meaningfully in part(s) of the lower frequencies then the benefit of using solid walls (concrete or the like, as recommended by the manufacturer) should be at least in part to reinforce the bass via strong room gain. If that scenario reflects (pun!) reality, then an active crossover and higher-crossed subwoofers might be more beneficial than they presently seem.
Main critique should be, nifty as this design is, the company doesn’t give enough info about their frequency-dependent behavior for consumers in typical North American homes to have much to work with, empirically speaking. At least not for the prices on these models (IMO). Perhaps I’m missing something.
The speakers are made in Vietnam - if testing is also done there, I wonder if it’s in a fully concrete building as is common in SE / E Asia. I expect my system (which is highly dependent on room interaction) would probably need considerable adjustment if moved from its present all-concrete-boundaries into a drywall-above-slab residence. American homes seem asymmetrical nightmares, structurally/boundary-wise (for sound waves), in this regard. Speakers that play with the room to such an extent as Clarysis suggests might be even more sensitive to these factors. Obviously the room boundaries can’t be changed, but worth considering rather than only making assumptions based on what’s inside the room?

You might also try laying down some large panels of wood on the floor between / in front of the speakers, to see what a more symmetric pair of vertical boundaries (bare ceiling and fooor) accomplishes. Just a thought in line with much of what I tried during setup for a similar sound. BIG sound is such good fun.