Pioneer S-1EX Loudspeaker

What did you find better between the Tad and the S2EX when listening to them side by side? Was it subtle or a real night/day type of thing? In other words, lets say you listened to both in an a/b OR even the Tad on one channel, the S2EX on the other channel. What precisely do you hear different in such a scenario?

Thanks for the input and hopefully Zeal figured out what was happening with his setup!

Hey Zeal,

So you got around to enjoying the sound of the EL34's more than the KT88/90's? Have you ever gotten remotely close to clipping the amp/s at extreme volume levels or are you getting darn loud levels even with the amps not even using much power?

I'd be very curious how others that own Tad based speakers find tubes vs. these Ice/Class D/T/etc. amps to sound. I know only one other person on a forum using an EL34 tubed amp as the main amp, but always see the shows using these Ice amps or some kinda Japanese SS type amp or even HT receiver.

These are basically 90db speakers so I truly struggle to find any reason whatsoever to need more than 5-20 watts to get serious output, and around 40-50 to get levels that are obtrusively loud.

Good to hear you are finding more ways to optimize the speaker:)!!! Personally I don't see anything on the market since Tad began marketing their stuff some 12? years ago that approaches this level of sound. Even though Pioneer is a lil different design, the transducers being used, at least in the 1EX w/BE tweeter, are identical to Tad's Evolution One which has been tough for people to identify in a/b testing against Tad's CR-1's. I'm sure the Ref Ones would be a lil clearer, but how much clearer does one need it to sound?

Cheers!

Was reading earlier in the thread about the Tads vs. the Pios. Can people that have heard both say there is an indefinite difference between the two or that it's a matter of taste than it is one speaker being superior to the other? Way I see it is we have what are the absolute finest transducers (dynamic) on the planet. How can it get any better via Tad other than the BE mids and the slight better motors on the bass units of the Ref Ones? I always see this percentile of something, and many believe the Pios are 90-95% of the Tads. I'm very curious if we can make a percentile or if we can say it would be difficult in an a/b to say which one is Tad and which is Pio. I loved the Youtube clip with Andrew talking about the Tad E1's vs. CR-1's and saying to the audience, but you were hearing the E1 and not the CR-1, as if they are so close in sound that it's hard for anyone to say which is what speaker. I also know many that feel the E1 is the superior speaker over the Reference One, and also know the E1 is w/some slight things, identical to the Pioneer EX1. I'll go on a limb and say if we had all Tad's offerings and Pio's offerings on hand, behind a curtain, we would all be fooled as the sound is probably that close to tell the difference w/exception of few golden ears that can hear some slight differences maybe from the BE mid and again the dual 10's in the Ref One would easily give them away:)).

This speaker is in the house as of three days ago...woooohooo!!! I have the Pioneer 1EX as I wanted the BE dome. Maybe others cannot hear the difference but it was worth it for me since we are talking penny change for what we are getting back sound wise. Regardless, I'd surely live with the newer 3EX model as the ceramic tweeter I'm positive would not be a terrible let down and sound excellent for much less money too. It was a thing where if say Pioneer offered a BE mid version for another 3K a pair, I'd have the all BE version. BE is a serious metal, MUCH stiffer than Magnesium, let alone any other metals we find in speakers like titanium, aluminum, etc.

My .02 about the Pios is this:

1) They don't need much power to drive them to very loud volume levels. They live up to that measured efficiency very well, but it also may have to do with the pistonic behavior and speedy transients displayed by these not full fledged Tad Reference One drivers, but darn state of the art vs. off-shelf name your manufacturer's drivers.

2) Sound is absolutely phenomenal. Many will dislike this speaker because it doesn't have much of anything at all attached to it. Even coming from a Seas Excel Magnesium Coaxial w/rear firing ribbon speaker, this speaker just sounds thinner per say, as if it just has no substance on it, no hints or bits of thickness/coloration of other drivers...the coax almost reminds me of an older totally raw paper type sounding driver, but obviously way smoother/cleaner/resolved/detailed/immaculate in every way conceivable. It's not to say that vocals become all thin/tiny/youthful, but that they do shed some or a LOT of weight depending on how much coloration your last speakers were...i.e. something Scanspeak/Vifa/Dynaudio/etc. will sound real muddy/thick/and make the Pioneers sound very "synthetic/not natural/real/etc."...all sound is subjective, but this is what I am getting from the sound. This said, the vocals "presence" is amazing and again, in spite some is shaven off, you still get VERY FAT and BIG vocal presence, just with an elimination of any and all distortion which gives a "clearer" sounding vocal. Instruments is the same deal, thinner, but I think more true to the way instruments truly sounded when they were recorded or even in real life.

I have not done any raking/setup/nothing at all, but I can literally move the speaker a few inches and the sound changes "dramatically"...It's certainly an easy to enjoy/setup speaker BUT, it is absolutely NOT easy in any sense of the word if you are striving to get them "precisely" setup OR even just learn how sound changes each and every inch of the way. I've never owned a speaker that I moved a few inches and the sound was entirely different..that was seriously shocking. I've heard loads of speakers where you change positioning and of course sound changes, but just how much they changed with such little movement at all was truly amazing. I can only imagine spending weeks with the speakers for a precise as possible setup will do for absolutely state of the art sound.

I have not heard the Tad Reference Ones, but I have to think this is the poor man's Tad, and we are not losing much of the big Tads at all...One has to ask, is it worth 80K for the BE in the mid, dual 10's with much better motors, OR, is the sound already so beyond anything off the shelf Seas-Scan-Raal-Peerless-Focal-etc. etc. that going any further is rather lunacy!:)

Cheers!

Have you ever tried experimenting with smaller tube or transistor amps on these speakers? They seem very sensitive/efficient and I'm curious why many are using such high powered amps for these speakers. Perhaps better put, how much power do you think you are giving these speakers to make serious spl? Those 180's are brutes for power, but are you even needing much of that power to make excellent music? Sounds like the speaker is so resolving/revealing that every microscopic movement makes a night/day type of a difference, as in, this is a "very" high level speaker that involves a ton of critical care and not just your average/typical (cost no option even) speaker that you can make work quite simply without too much work.

Thanks for the input regarding power.

Upon quite extensive, but not extensive enough listening/setup/etc., these speakers REALLY respond to position. I would even go so far as to say one could literally spend a good few weeks-months getting various different sound out of the speakers. I've tried toe everywhere, tilt forward-backward-etc., and I'm still having a time with figuring out what I like best. I can say one thing for sure...you can make an entirely contrasting sound with even TINY little changes in speaker placement. I have never owned a speaker that was so sensitive to placement, nor one that had such a dramatic sound difference even with such minute changes in the placement. The fascinating thing about this speaker is how "different" it is from anything I have ever heard. It is very easy to understand why people would either love or hate this type of speaker because one may be too used to the "ordinary" sound from even mega buck cost no option speakers. I personally love the sound, but when listening to ordinary speakers, it's like a deja vu type of feeling and even raises question marks as to what exactly is correct sound reproduction...the ordinary or the extraordinary?