Marty.
Thanks for the link. That's $3,375 for each speaker and that's about what I can get them for from my local dealer. I was curious about what other folks' opinions are on the speaker itself.
Thanks again.
_Ben |
Thank you Geared-4-me, That's very helpful. I currently have the Krell Resolution 2 speakers - no slouches either, but I am hoping the Pioneers will deliver the same controlled and authoritative base as the Krells, but with a more resolving high-frequency response, I really like the Krells, but if I could just get a little more refinement in the upper mid and treble regions...
Anyone have experience with both the Krells and the Pioneers...??
Thanks...
_Ben |
I am auditioning the S-1EX's in my room this weekend. So far, these are by far the best $15,0000 - $18,000 speaker I have heard in my room (they are now specially priced - new - at $7,000). I also auditioned the "2's" (the smaller "monitor" version and they are also very impressive). Wow! tough choice...
I can't believe I never hear about these truly excellent speakers...
Audio Video Logic has a few pairs left for anyone looking for a new speaker in the under-$10,000-range. I would advise those to consider these before pulling the trigger on anything in that range. |
Zeal:
Have you tried experimenting with the amount of toe-in (both away from and toward the listening position) as well as the amount of rake (the way the speaker leans forward or backward - which affects the direction the tweeter fires; either directly at or above the level of your ears)...?
What exactly do you not like about the current sound; too thin, too boomy, not resolving enough, sound-staging issues...? |
Thanks Emailists.
I have read about Andrew Jones' recommendations to cross the axis in front of the listening position. I haven't gotten around to trying this yet, but I plan to. I really like having the image come from behind the speakers since that is what I am accustom to, but I will try it both ways.
I will say that the S-2ex's are surprisingly close to the excellent CR-1's (as hard as that may be to fathom...). My dealer has both set up in the same room on the same system. Obviously, the CR-1's are better, but they are also about five-and-a-half times the cost. |
John from Audio Video Logic came over to my house and set the speakers up properly. He was there for more than two hours and was extremely thorough. We tried a variety of positions and came up with a very effective solution. The positioning alone helped significantly. Additionally, I am auditioning a Mac amp in the system, which really mates well with the speakers. I love my Krell, but the MC-302 really sounds nice with the S-2ex's... |
Saeyedoc:
I can personally vouch for AudioVideoLogic. Of course, you don't have a clue to my credentials. If you would like, you can send me a private message.
Anyway, I have know John Weirs - the owner of AVLogic - for fifteen years now and he has become a personal friend of mine. I have the utmost respect for John. Not only does he have true integrity (he is a straight-shooter and as honest as they come), he also really knows the business. He is as knowledgeable as anyone I have known in the business.
AudioVideoLogic is definitely legit (110-percent legit). They are indeed an authorized dealer for TAD and Pioneer. Andrew Jones will be at AVLogic next month.
I own the Pioneer S-2ex and I simply cannot believe how good they are. I now have them dialed in and they just sound ...well they sound unbelievable for the money. Literally, 90-percent of what the $40,000 TAD CR-1's offer.... |
Zeal:
Four feet from the side walls, 20" to the back of the speaker from the front wall, raked slightly forward (about 1/8 of a bubble on the level). My room is 16' x 20' with 8' ceilings.
I'm using a combination of absorption and diffusion panels on all walls. |
Zeal:
The S-2EX's use a different concentric driver array than the 3's. In there case, both John and I agreed that the beryllium-driver based concentric driver combo sounded the sweetest just above axis. We therefore positioned them raked slightly forward. We also toed them out so that they fire well to the sides of the listener. In my room, this is a very good way to set them up. The farther way from the side walls the better. It really opens up the whole sound stage. |
Zeal:
Try this... Disconnect one speaker from the amp - either speaker - (turn amp off and remove one set of speaker cables from the amp).
Fire the amp back up and position your ears below the "firing path" of the tweeter (literally get up and move around in the near vicinity of your listening point - squatting low at various heights just below the tweeter's "path."). With the S2's, I found that the brightness (glare) became worse below the tweeter and the treble actually became sweeter just above the tweeter. See what you think.
Next, position yourself at different points to the side ("inside" side) of the tweeter and locate where it sounds the sweetest. With the S2's the treble became less pronounced when my ears where slightly to the side of the tweeter.
In my case, I remedied the annoying glare by raking the speakers forward to the point that the tweeters fired slightly below my ears at the listening position (chair) - and slightly to the outside of the "direct pathway" to each ear (with the axis somewhere very close to, or immediately behind the listening position.
I also have to rake the S-1's forward, where at the right point the treble sounds excellent. Do keep in mind that these speakers are more planer-like in their ability to retrieve detailed treble - to the point that anyone who enjoys a speaker voiced on the warm side or rolled off at a noticeable upper frequency range, likely will not like the presentation of the EX series (which in my opinion, is pretty darn flat. Certainly the flattest I've owned - i.e.: excellent balance).
Let us know if you get the treble tamed.
_Ben |
Thanks Rhljazz.
I have listened to them at the dealers, but I would of course have to listen to them in my system in my home and I haven't decided if I want to bother with that. I love the bigger TAD's, but the least expensive TAD is more than thirty-grand. I was wondering if others have any real experience with the Pioneers, which purportedly incorporate several key components and technologies of the TAD line...
I just can't get a good read on them at the dealer's show room. His equipment and room is so much different than mine...we all know how that goes...and - of course - I am also trying to gain some "reassurance," as well as some insight into any known shortcomings...
Cheers!
_Ben |
I went ahead and bought the S-2EX, which are exceptionally well-built speakers. I am not currently satisfied with their sound though and I fear it is the beryllium dome tweeter that is the culprit. I have about 75-hours on them and I sure hope that, with another 200-hours or so, they will "mellow out."
They are indeed very revealing speakers and they certainly present a lot of information - very resolving. They do measure pretty flat across the spectrum, but the upper treble is just too dry for me at present. Right now, I miss my old Krell Resolution IIs, but they were a bit too rolled off in the upper treble (I've gone from one extreme to the next!).
I haven't made my final analysis yet and I hope that with additional hours on them, these speakers turn out to be keepers. They're quick, detailed and highly resolving, yet at this point they are just too thin and dry - lacking the needed air around the upper treble... I hope this isn't indicative of beryllium tweeters in general... |
I just "upgraded" to the Pioneer S-1EX's and I am flabbergasted... They are brand new, fresh out of the cases yesterday and they already sound very very good. I haven't been so pleased with a speaker purchase in a long time.
There's typically been a trade-off when I change speakers. These things are simply impressive as hell and so far seem to be a really great combination of the things I've been striving for. I may even do a review after they break in...or not!
_Ben |
Zeal:
Optimal space restrictions prevent me from bringing the speakers out into the room as far as I would like. I have ample room on each side (a little better than four feet to each side wall), but only two feet from the front wall (behind the speakers). In this setup, the speakers present a very wide and realistically tall sound-stage with enough depth to suite my tastes. Surprisingly, these bigger speakers image nearly as well as their smaller siblings (the S-2EX), but they don't fully disappear as well as the S-2's. The overall tone and presentation is more believable with the S-1's.
I have the tweeters firing to the sides of my ears with the axis somewhere behind me. My listening sofa sits against a "half-wall" (just a couple of inches higher than the sofa) on the other side of which there is another room which allows sound waves to move well behind the listening position. I have the speakers raked forward by a good half-bubble.
It's too early to know if this is the optimal setup, but it sounds really good to my ears. I'll have John over to provide some "fine-tuning!"
Cheers!
_Ben |
Sounds like the speaker is so resolving/revealing that every microscopic movement makes a night/day type of a difference, as in, this is a "very" high level speaker that involves a ton of critical care and not just your average/typical (cost no option even) speaker that you can make work quite simply without too much work. Actually, I agree with Kal Rubinson's evaluation (from his excellent review in Stereophile): In regard to ease of placement in a domestic room not exclusively dedicated to listening, the S-1EX surpassed all other speakers I've used. This means that anyone who buys the Pioneer is more likely to enjoy optimum results than with more finicky speakers. All speakers require proper setup and some rooms are trickier than others...to say the least! While the S-1EX's are indeed very resolving and detailed, they have not presented me with any difficult/unusual placement problems/issues as compared with other floor standers that I've had in my room. Since they are front-ported, they can be placed closer to the front wall (back wall to some folks) than the typical rear-ported floor standers. |
