It is fairly easy to mark the angle between the cantilever and the record. If the stylus had been 90 degrees on the cantilever, I would have no problem using this method. But this is what we don't know - right? Estimating the stylus angle vis-a-vis the record (or cantilever) is very hard and prone to subjective error, at least in my setup so far. |
Thanks for advice! I dislike it, however, when an honest question is turned into a stupid statement. Rpeluso writes as if I've left my ears behind - I have not. Going the visual way is a "nightmare". Well perhaps not though I trust my ears mainly. And Sunnyboy1956, where has Lyra said that SRA/VTA plays no role? It is more that they try to adjust for some margin, in my interpretation - but J Carr would be welcome to speak for himself. "Not a great fan" - who is? Karl Marx talked about the world of neccessity. Few audiophiles "want" to go into this SRA microscope testing business. The reason they do it, is to get the best possible sound from their pickups. Same with me. |
Thank you Sunnyboy1956. I do agree with you (and with Rpeluso) that too much adjustment can become on obsession. On the other hand, a bit of it is a needed. Since you have an Atlas - where do you set the arm - up, down, or just parallel? |
It would be nice with a comment from J Carr or others of Lyra... |
Thank you, JCarr, much appreciated. Ever since I bought my first Lyra, a Clavis, I have adjusted by ear, and your text confirms that this is (still) the main way to go. Happily the microscope wasn't a big investment. Obviously, some find it useful, including Michael Fremer. I wasn't aware of the strong feelings (or obsessions) in this area. Now, I will go back to my traditional method. All measures set as suggested in the Atlas instructions. Then, lights off, on with some favorite music. Listen, try a tiny bit up, listen again, a tiny bit down, etc. When I no longer think about it, because the music grips me - thats where it stays. If I end up with a weird SRA, OK, I'll let you know! |
Some months ago an audo friend of mine, visiting and listening to my system, adjusted my SME V arm upwards - he felt that the Atlas sounded better that way. It went as far up as possible, 6-8 mm in my case (Hanss T30 player). I thought, well perhaps he is right, at least it does not sound worse. Today I tried again, adjusting the arm down to parallel, listening, a bit up, listening again, and then up to the highest postion. Well yes, vaguely (my old non-golden ears), once more I did prefer the highest position, quite a bit above parallel. Now, what I should do (before I throw away my microscope), is to take some good pictures. Since my friend borrows it, they will come, later. Perhaps a core matter here, is that the Lyra pickups are made to be fairly - dare I say it - robust regarding VTA/SRA? In a sense, their "goodness" is their own worst enemy? I mean, if any of these adjustments had sounded BAD we would all have heard it, right, including Michael Fremer, who reviewed a lot of equipment with his Lyra Titan FAR TOO LOW on his LPs. I have a Meade telescope. It "clicks into place" when the focus is right. There is no question, one thing is RIGHT, all the rest is WRONG. My impression of Lyra pickups, unless you are really out of tune, there is seldom a WRONG, there is only a QUITE GOOD. And this often sounds mighty good too. So I am not sure if the "click into place" applies. Although I do believe in getting the best possible - going most of the way. |
Thank you, JCarr. I will do it when I get the microscope back (may take some time). Very grateful for this help.
Let me assure everyone reading this, that I enjoy my Atlas a lot, each day - this is why I have used Lyra cartridges for almost twenty years. |
I have worked more with my first pictures. As you can see, if I could copy them here, they are quite good, but not good enough to measure the SRA at a one degree level. My measures vary between 87 and 98 degrees, based on subjective ideas where to set the cross or measuring point, using various resolutions etc, trying to establish the angle of the stylus, the diamond itself. Establishing the record surface angle is easy. I am using Gimp, a good open source program that includes arc measurement, as well as the Cooling Tech software that came with the scope. I may be able to improve the photo quality, when I get the scope back, or I will have to buy something better. Distance and magnification are obviously keys to getting the best photos, and correct light plays a big role too. The pictures are embarassing - why is my cartridge so dirty. |
Picture nr 3 at the top here:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1337191142 |
I measured once more. With my SME V arm I am only able to raise the arm 2 mm or so from parallel. If it is higher, at the back, the rubber rim on the arm lift starts to engage the arm tube (even though it is at rest, not lifted), and there seems to be no way to adjust it down. This means I will have to use a shim under the cartridge, to simulate the arm going up, if needed. Since the whole idea with the SME V is structural integrity, no flexible connections, shims or whatever, I hesitate a bit. But if a good photo shows that the SRA is too low, I will have to reconsider. As it is, listening tests indicate that the pickup sounds best if the arm is raised as far as possible. Perhaps more is needed. Some owners (like M Fremer) had to raise their Lyra Atlas pickups more than I can. |
Thank you Peter - but the arm rest is already fully down, or very close to it (if I could only find that allen wrench), so I don't think it will change much. Also the microscope is still on loan to a friend. Btw he has a big dog that likes good music, so I've been wondering perhaps he could train it to hear proper VTA. Just joking. |
Thanks again! I have to get that wrench, it got lost.
To sum up: my Atlas sounds best as far up as I can get it, on my SME V arm on a Hanss T-30 turntable. I have measured, this is not very far up at the back, 2-3 mm or so from parallel. Perhaps I can get 1 mm more by adjusting the lift fully down. It becomes obvious that the SME V engineers did not include "off" cases - a needle and styles fairly close to the ideal angle is presupposed. If you have a poorly adjusted cartridge, you must use a shim, the high and low points of the arm adjustment create a quite narrow adjustment zone. BTW this type of compromise is typical of the SME V in other respects also. For example, structural integrity rules. So a shim is not the thing one wants, on this arm, with the shell integrated as part of the arm.
The point of the microscope is not to tell me, exactly what degree is my stylus. It can be off by an error of 1-2 degrees, or even more. The point is to give me a rough idea, where am I, compared to using the ears alone. Personally I am tired of people with golden ears who supposedly are able to adjust vta/sra by listening alone. I find that their magic may have worked last evening, but this morning I am not so sure. |
September 2016 update
I have gone down to a more moderate arm position, just a bit up from parallell. I have done some more microscope tests but have mainly given up on the method, for now. I took two older Lyra cartridges to a shop that claimed to give good microscope analysis, but they did not deliver, beyond a vague message that they looked worn. In fact, one was worn, the other not.
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