2. analog
  3. 155138-9304

Phono stage for 0.2mv cartridge?

  I am looking for a quality phono stage with at least 72db of gain.  During this last year I obtained a Canary MC10 which sounds beautiful but I am somewhat volume limited and listen at such high volume control settings that tube rush has become an issue.  At 69.5db of gain I hoped that the Canary would work out but...
  Most of the popular stages like the Herron and the Manlely Steelhead seem to run in the 66-70db gain range.  Reviewers seem to routinely report on these phono stages using cartridges with low outputs but that runs contrary to my experience so far.  Any suggestions appreciated.

Bill
wbs

Showing 11 responses by uberwaltz

uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Op
definitely no lack of ponies for sure.
but still curious as to what you used for a phono prior to the Canary and how that performed volume position wise?
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Another piece of information that might help would be what was used prior to the Canary acquisition?
Another Phonostage or using the c100 phono input?
And how was it prior to the Canary in the system with the same carts?
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
An unusual phono in that it caters for MC only with no options of gain having a fixed 69.5 db and that’s it.
7 tubes total, I would not think one of those would be cause of lack of gain.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Al
That also makes sense as that is not my genre and even with good older rock recordings there is generally a higher level of inbuilt compression and not the vast dynamic range and swings of a full blown symphony.

And just looking at numbers the difference between -10 and +5 is quite something on its own.
Not what one would expect from a true 69.5db gain at the phono.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Al
Great post.
However do you not think also that in general the OP is having to run a lot higher line stage gain even on a digital source than one would expect?
This indicates to myself a potential downstream problem that might be compounding the phono issue.

For instance if I tried to run -10db on my BAT ( which has a range -68 to +22) from my DAC, I would fear for the health of my ear drums and windows!
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Bill
Thanks for the additional information.
However something really does not add up somewhere.
No way with a 0.2mv output and 69.5 db of gain should you be anywhere near maxing out your preamp gain!

Now maybe it’s further down the chain as even with a digital source you are near the top of your preamp gain.
Possibly undersized power amp with inefficient speakers?
Just generally working hard with your Watts for a living?

So power amp and speakers?
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Tooblue
Have you tried different loading options?
My ZYX really sang at 470 ohms on the Gold Note.
Sorry not meaning to hijack the OP thread or take it down another path.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
tooblue
well at least we know you aint going to lose your shirt if you decide to sell the wall audio unit!
lmao
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Tooblue.
Now that is most interesting.
I had always assumed the difference was in the downstream equipment the phono interacted with that gave rise to variations in perceived" loudness" for same gain.

Obviously more at play inside the various phonos than just the published gain specs!
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
I do have another concern here.
69.5db of gain should have been more than enough to drive 0.2mv cart unless serious phono to preamp mismatch?
I drove a ZYX at 0.24mv at just 66db gain on my Gold Note PH10.
72db of gain would be more in line for carts with 0.10 to 0.05mv output.
If everything is matched downstream.

So question for the OP.
What preamp and what cartridge and what adjoining cabling?
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Have you considered the Gold Note PH10?
Has a maximum gain of 72db.
Very user friendly and affordable.
Good luck
More to discover