Phono Preamp. With transformer or fully active

Do you have a MM phono input now or phono preamp now, MM and/or MC? Options?

I recently asked for help here, 3 separate threads, and got good advice as usual

I started by looking for a separate Phono Preamp for my office, 2 TT, wanted two inputs, for 2 MM cartridges.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/phono-eq-small-inexpensive-two-phono-inputs

I bought the Cambridge Audio Alva Duo, nice features

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07932QK4N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then I bought this inexpensive Pyle, MM only

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PYLE-PRO-PP999-Phono-Turntable-Pre-Amplifier/362969672529?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Pyle’s MM sound was the same as the Cambridge, my plans changed to only 1 TT in office, kept the Pyle, returned the Cambridge. If I needed 2 TT, the Cambridge has nice features for not too much money.

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Then Bill tempted me into the MC world.

I checked cartridge specs: new; vintage; damaged to be fixed by Steve at VAS, and chose a new Audio Technica for my first MC cartridge, AT33PTG-II, I absolutely love it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00475S0BU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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My McIntosh Tube Tuner/Preamp mx110z from the 60’s has two MM Inputs, and it sounds great, so why skip it with a new external phono stage if a SUT would boost signal enough for my existing MM inputs?

sooo, Which SUT (I started knowing zero, ended very well informed). In that thread, I posted links to various SUTS with various features, as well as the others members suggested.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/which-sut-for-3mv-10-ohms-mc-cartridge-into-3mv-mm-input-sensiti

I like options for the future, and have two tonearms, so 1 MM arm, 1 MC Arm. PASS lets you use the SUT as a switch for MM, so 2 cartridges into 1 phono input.

After learning, and finding this Fidelity Research’s options and features, and preferring Vintage, I took a chance on it, glad I did.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fidelity-research-FR-FRT-4-Toroidal-Transformer-In-Excellent-Condition/333648114135?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

3 separately selectable inputs, 4 selectable gain options, and PASS.

I plunked it down, zero noise. compared my new MC to my existing MM via PASS.

Yesterday I moved it to 3 other locations to find noise, could not do it.

10 ohm 21x, and 30 ohm 18x gain choices are very good for this cartridge. Bill, Arne and I all preferred the 10 ohm/21x factor setting for my .3mv/10 ohm cartridge, which gives 6.3mv sig (before losses), 110 ohm load to 47k phono input. (all gibberish to me before learning from members here). That leaves me a very high gain 36x and a low gain 11x option for the future.

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Answer: if you don’t have a phono stage, a flexible one, MM PASS, MC with optional gain (front or internal switches, not resistors) would be nice.

btw: I borrowed my friends highly regarded Rowland Preamp, it was huge, a separate power supply, and sadly damaged, sounded awful.

btw: Prior to this McIntosh mx110z tube tuner preamp, I had a highly regarded McIntosh SS C28 preamp, had it and my Mcintosh SS amp factory overhauled. I actually preferred the AT120 TT’s little dinky built-in phono preamp’s sound to the C38’s phono stage.

So, what sounds best? It takes trial, make sure you can return what you try.

best of luck choosing,

Elliott

lewm

I think you switched things inadvertently, the 30 ohm input is 18.27 xf, I prefer the 10 ohm setting which is 20.68 xf

actual #s from FRT-4 specs:

3 ohm input: xf 35.84; gain 31db, .3mv = 10.8mv, impedance load 37 ohms

10 ohm input: xf 20.68; gain 26db; .3mv = 6.3mv, impedance load 110 ohms

30 ohm input: xf 18.27; gain 25db; .3mv = 5.4mv, impedance load 141 ohms

100 ohm input: xf 10.55; gain 20db; .3mv = 3.3mv, impedance load 423 ohms

denon au-320 is very nice, 2 inputs, 3 ohm or 40 ohm gain/loading options, and PASS

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-AU-320-step-up-transformer-mc-moving-coil-cartridges-junk-products-phono/383631324085?hash=item59523573b5:g:f6QAAOSwhtNecvwE

this one, with transformers many people respect, including Bill, has 4 different values set by switch combinations, only 1 input, no PASS for MM (it has only 1 input, so not needed).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moving-Coil-Phono-Step-Up-Transformer-Cinemag-3440AH-4-Ratios-1-9-1-36-MC-SUT/124263990235?hash=item1ceeb603db:g:pwAAAOSwdehfBJnw

the EAR MC4, used, 4 variations, via 4 separate sets of inputs, 3/6/12/40 ohms inputs, no PASS, only 1 input, compared to the Fidelity Research it seems poorly thought out, clumsy, were switches thought horrible things?

https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/ear-mc4-step-up-transformer-390620595/

a few Fidelity Research FRT-4 are out there

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=frt-4

ortofon, PASS and 5 inputs, 3/6/12/24/48 ohms. (xf #'s??)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORTOFON-T-30-Step-Up-Transformer-MC-Phono-Cartridge/283859443473?hash=item4217575f11:g:UvgAAOSwYcdepVAw

chackster,

that one

http://www.auduo-1.com/newgoods/K-L/LUXMAN/TYPE8020_TYPE8030/TYPE8020_TYPE8030.html

offers the potential for a full line of optional transformer plug-ins, like camera lenses.

buy what you need to start, buy a different plug in later for any cartridge you buy.

labeling inputs with ohms makes no logical sense to me. I think they should give/show the x factor on the dial/transformer. that makes easier math. why not produce windings that give round numbered x factors, i.e. 6x; 10x; 14x; 20x. that's all you need to know to calculate signal strength and x factor sq is much easier to calculate.

you look for your desired load, see the x factor, see if large enough signal.

a 3 column chart: x factor/ xf sq / gain +___db

The answer to your question, originally stated, is the difference is where the process of equalization occurs,

and it is that equalization stage where the sound varies the most.

SUT’s increase signal strength with no eq, sending the stronger signal out to be equalized elsewhere.

Lack of Hum is a major goal of a SUT, good/better/best transformers and shielding.

a few with options not on ebay when I was looking/learning/buying

Audio Technica, PASS and 3/20/40 ohm options

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-AT660T-OCC-Step-Up-Transformer-MC-Phono-Cartridge-USED-JAPAN-RARE/193587440854?hash=item2d12b5ecd6:g:SzgAAOSwk1VfFvNG

Technics PASS, 3/15/30 ohm options

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-SH-305MC-Step-Up-Transformer-MC-Phono-Cartridge-USED-JAPAN-matsushita/193228873370?hash=item2cfd569e9a:g:JNgAAOSw8A1d3Tb1

ENTRE 3 front selectable inputs, PASS, 3/15/40 ohms

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENTRE-ET-100-Step-Up-Transformer-MC-Stereo-Phono-Cartridge-USED-JAPAN-vintage/193318119654?hash=item2d02a868e6:g:o30AAOSwkAxeLZjX

This Vintage Denon Integrated has one phono input and front switched internals for MM 2.5mv sensitivity and MC .125 mv sensitivity. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Denon-PMA-750-Audio-80-Watt-Phono-Turntable-Stereo-Pre-Amplifier/174360505596?hash=item2898b22cfc:g:fGQAAOSwOI5e8Yd4

Very clean, you would need to get seller to ship if for far less money

Denon excerpt: Phono 20-100k, 0.2db

The MC/MM super equalizer is carried and the broadband characteristic of 20Hz-100kHz�}0.2dB is realized.
Composition consists of the NF form direct-current amplifier and CR form equalizing filter by newly developed low noise dual FET, and the first rank serves as dual FET differential amplification of the direct direct-current servo system.

https://audio-database.com/DENON-COLUMBIA/amp/pma-750-e.html

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/denon/pma-750.shtml