Burn-in matters. If you haven’t heard it for yourself... you are yet to be educated. Your ears will thank you eternally. Hagerman Technologies offers a iRIAA2 (inverse riaa card) that works with a line output signal from say a CD player. You fire it up and forget about it for any number of hours and with no pain, you conquer the burn-in monotony in the shortest time possible. Here is Mr Hagerman’s explanation of the products function; The iRIAA Filter is a two-channel passive inverse RIAA response filter for use in testing phono preamplifiers. Unlike traditional networks, the iRIAA Filter includes a correctly placed upper 3.18us (50kHz) corner in its transfer function. Output level is switchable between -40dB and -60dB. Frequency response is accurate to within +/-0.5dB from 10Hz to 100kHz. http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/iriaa2-inverse-riaa-filterhttp://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/frybaby2-compact-burn-in-generatorI have no affiliation with Hagerman Technologies other then I and many of my audio club members fully appreciate this product and its benefits. Happy Listening! |
Geoffkait, I could not agree with you more. One would think they would hear it, understand it, and for nothing more than pure money making desire, wish to have the gear sounding its best, but they don’t, go figure...
That makes me question their very abilities as a dealer.
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At 4:20 this thread appeared to run astray of any reasonable logic... could it just be a Friday "burn-in" gone up in smoke in someone's time zone? |
wolf_garcia, are you merely fooling around and adding distortions to the soundtrack or are you searching to understand? I'd suggest, let your ears and your experience be the true test of whether something exists in the audio hobby/world. Trading ideas and experience can be helpful yet, to rely (or worse, depend) on measurements or someone else's convincing tale, is to miss the entire point.
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Sometimes hard to separate those being intentionally ridiculous, from those who just are...
It's great to have both the musical background and audio experience you speak of. I don't know you, so I would not make too rash a judgement to whether that means anything or not. Hopefully, it has more to offer here than sheer levity. While old and young "gasbags" as you call them, create intolerable levels of THD throughout these discussions, there are those who actually don't understand and deeply want to. Ironically, I believe you and I ultimately want the same outcome here.
And thank you for welcoming me to an audio website that I've been on now for nearly two decades.
Still find me too sobering? :) |
Wolf_garcia, nicely played.
I've quite honestly been away a good while, mostly traveling and happily listening to all things audio and otherwise. Thank you Zen master Hakuin for the koan, "what is the sound of one hand" (clapping).
I can clearly see by your high sample rate that you have been busy entertaining and entertained. I'll have to do some back reading to get caught up in the current state of affairs so that any ridiculousness was not wasted. I'm not a buzz kill, really! I do understand the desperate need to break the monotony and the down right lack of fundamental understanding present in some of these threads...geez. And I do say that with all due respect of knowing I too am but a student, and have much to learn. But my, how things have changed here since the market crash. So much of the deep, deep knowledge and momentum seems to have moved (hopefully not passed) on. This is my initial perception, I would love to be proven dead wrong. I'll keep reading and writing and we'll see what happens.
Perhaps unmeasurable, but never the less, still perceptible.
Happy Listening! |
swampwalker, agreed, not saying things are bad here (yet) but, even a really bad day on an audio thread (and while listening to the Hi-fi), is still better than a good day in front of the boob-tube IMHO. [|;^)> |
Geoffkait, Some of this thread is just nuts. I'd be kind of a Mound's fan, but they screwed up the Almond Joy when they used cheap (domestic style) milk chocolate. Had they taken a lesson from the Swiss and way-upped the butter fat and used quality cocoa with the almonds, I'd be all in! [|;^)> |
I think I’ll hold off on putting my MA-1 Mk.3 Silvers on "or best offer" for a bit and keep my ears open.
roger_paul, Oh, the world is filled with many ironies. I have no idea what you may have going on here, and wish no personal offense. Yet, this thread seems like an odd venue to roll out a new paradigm for making things louder. Agreed, I don’t quite get it. Claims such as these are truly best brought from an independent party and you would do yourself, and your new product, I believe, better press in this manner.
It also used to be customary around these parts to note on your post that you are "industry" and therefore not be accused after the fact of unknowingly misleading someone here with your likely bias. I mean to suggest no impropriety on your part what so ever. As I’m sure you have the best of intentions and are very excited about what you have done. I’m just saying.
Offering info up in a new thread with links to your white paper and product reviews might be a real focused approach.
Happy Listening! |
In defense of the theory of "detecting the immeasurable". We have heard for decades, perhaps since the beginnings of mankind, certainly before electronics, things with our highly tuned listening devices, things that if our ancient ancestors had not heard and understood in time/space/direction cues, we would not be sitting in front of our glorious Hi-fi kits today for a casual listen. And so it goes, scientists still can't put simple numbers and logic to what we sit down with. Our old, damaged, ears and faulty logic, but sessioned listening skills and never the less, we hear without fail.
Two violin players play the same piece, note for note, why does Heifetz not sound like Grappelli?
Happy Listening! (regardless of measure) |
cleeds,
I hear without fail.
That doesn't mean, I hear perfectly or understand perfectly (scientifically) what I hear.
Perhaps whatever we hear is all that matters.
I do not derive any pleasure from numbers, or being "right".
Your statement is most accurate, yet if I'm musically fooled and happy (in front of my Hi-fi), is it not a better place to be than scientifically baffled and frustrated and somehow not into the music?
Thank you Zen master Hakuin for the koan, what is the sound of one hand (clapping)?
Happy Listening!
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Thom Mackris, Check out my post (seventh post in, on a two page thread) I realize it is a long read and life is short, but geez... really?
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I have sat in glorious orchestra and opera halls. I have had chamber series seats for years, nearly a decade, working my seats to a position about nine rows back, just left of center. I know what acoustic music sounds like live and what horse-hair plaster walls sound like. I rarely weep at a performance, but in Birmingham's Alabama Theatre on July 3 2008 I had the extreme good fortune to have a first row, just left of center, mezzanine seat for Tom Waits Glitter and Doom. What can I say? It was my only occasion to see Mr. Waits live. Screw stereo reproduction, this was the real thing, flesh & bone. Sorry but, I am yet to be thrilled by the sound of a box of gadgets like I was that night... Was there audible distortions or a smearing of the sound stage? I guess, I was so caught up in the performance that I couldn't have cared less. It got behind the mule!
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Well, yes but only the live performance anyone could have, Glitter & Doom is on both vinyl (my preference) and redbook CD and is an excellent selection of songs from many (if not all) of the venues in this tour. Two things to keep in mind, Mr. Waits only tours about every seven years or so, and, he is usually very picky about finding nice old opera and concert venues to perform in. His musicians are exemplary as well. If you don’t, you really should own this recording. It is a treat. And it may play very well into what your amp is doing.
Happy Listening!
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geoffkait, so you’re the one. Organic neuron stimulation? telepathic-enabling technology?... like in the film Æon Flux?! That’s way cooler then this gear thing.
"Handler... connect me to, Elvis Costello’s - Red Shoes"
Happy Experiencing!
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Surge, you comment seems dismissive to the point of displaying a simple lack of high-end experience.
In that, I just got back from a friend’s house where he had a very nice set up including Pass Labs amplification, Wilson Sasha 2’s, a VPI classic 3 turntable (that I had set-up), and a mishmash of good old interconnect cables, speaker cables, and power cords. Overall, his sound was very good, natural, and convincing. It had a nice relaxed feel and we could just focus on the music, playing record, after record.
Well he finally had the chance to break down and drop some serious dollars on a real nice full loom of Tara Labs cables. By all rights, this should take his kit to a much more refined level of performance overall. So we couldn’t resist, we stripped out all the old stuff, put these new ones in cold out of the UPS box, and guess what? The sound was completely confusing both timbre and soundstage where a complete harsh, smeared mess, the system was unlistenable and a total waste of time, I mean, down right nasty. Two days later? Still unlistenable.
I have been here so many times. I told my friend that we either needed a burner service or we would have to do it the long hard way by downloading a sweep track or use a burn CD and let these run for a week or two without listening.
The bottom line here is that the more resolving a system is, and the more experienced your ears become, burn-in is more easily recognizable as a real necessity, not just voodoo, or a figment of someone’s imagination. One could not just have plugged them in and sit down and enjoy the music. (And this is no reflection on the cable maker or dealer. It is just a matter of fact and I have no doubt that once they are burned in, we will experience killer performance like many of their cables I have experienced before.)
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