2. analog
  3. 150781-122981

Phono cartridge suggestions sought

Hi All,

 I am in the market for a new phono cartridge. I can run up to $1400 but would prefer not to if i can get the performance I want. 

I listen to predominantly Jazz on vinyl, though some rock, folk and classical also gets spun

I recently heard a Hana SL and Rega Apheta at a dealers—different decks, same room and system. Both sounded good although the Apheta was not as heavy sounding and at the same time sounded more “present”. I wasn’t really looking at the Apheta, but it was available to listen to. 

The room is accoustically live with lots of glass and hard surfaces but all sounds good. 

System: Naim Atom, Bryston TT, Parasound JC jr phono stage (so huge loading flexibility and gain up to the 60’s), Totem Acoustics Signature Ones, Transparent cables. Current cart: Denon 103r with 250 hours on it, so it is winding down. 

I have enjoyed the Denon. But wondering about that all elusive “more.”

on paper spec, nobody touches the Grados for channel separation, but not sure how essential a criterion that should be. Especially since I worked hard to tame some RFI from a nearby antenna and the Grados I have heard said are not well-shielded. 

Since my Totems only drop down to 45 Hz, I suppose absolute resolution on the low end could be sacrificed for other sonic goods. 

Ok, hive mind, what do you suggest?
dramatictenor

Showing 10 responses by chakster

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
When you’re listening to a cartridge with conical tip you loose a lot in resolution, no matter what arm or phono stage, speakers etc. Conical tip is the worst ever stylus tip, this is entry level and pretty much oldschool. The life span of that tip is too short.

First you have to know your arm effective mass when you’re looking for a cartridge for it.

Do not waste your time with Denon retipping/refurbishing, just buy a whole new cartridge with better stylus profile, better cantilever and overall better sound quality. If you like SoundSmith just buy his own MI cartridge! 

If you want a low compliance MC it can be Fidelity-Research PMC-3 with Air-Core Coil, Contact Line stylus.

If you want a decent mid compliance MM it can be Audio-Technica AT-ML150 OCC with Gold-Plated Beryllium cantilever and MicroLine tip.

... just to name a few, but there are many more (depends on your budget) and dealers will never offer you those carts in the shops! The world of cartridges is much bigger than Hanna, Denon and usual suspects, some vintage cartridges are superior to all of them, do not ignore them.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@dramatictenor

Chakster, thanks for those suggestions. BTW, Sending it to SS gives an option of either a ruby or boron cantilever, with a nude contact line or optimized contour nude contact line stylus for relatively little money. With that information, and based on your concerns about conical tips, do you still think that getting the Denon worked on makes no sense? If so, why?

It will definitely improve the sound of oldschool denon designed in the 60’s, no doubt. But it will be a refurbished MC cartridge, instead you could buy SoundSmith MI cartridge with best cantilever and stylus. You can watch his lecture and Peter will explain why MI are better than MC, he rebuild many thousands MC cartridges, but his own carts are MI, guess why? You will find the answer in his lecture.

When you ship anything to SoundSmith for rebuild it will take up to 5 month to get it back.
If you want to try something different (better than your stock denon) look for vintage MM/MI or vintage MC with best cantilevers and best styli.


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Here is a post about Ortofon poor quality control, read it before you will buy any Ortofon cartridge such as Bronze or others.  


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Any other tools for cartridge alignment and tt set up you think i should have?

All you need is Dr.Feickert protractor and level.
Cardas Test LP
Hi-Fi News Test LP

and digital scale like this

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Chakster, the article you sent wouldn’t dissuade me at all from purchasing product from Ortofon. At least not from my authorized dealer. That said, I’m not sure that’s the cartridge I want, even though I’ve owned their products before.

We share something on here just to help people i believe, it’s up to you what cartridge do you need. I have NOS Ortofon MC2000 and it was amazing cartridge, still superb, it was made in the mid 80’s (high compliance MC, not for everyone with such a low output). Very rare model, admired by many experienced users on here.

Regarding the new Ortofon:
When cartridge pins on the new expensive Ortofon models fell off this is too bad, don’t you think so ? This is bad quality control, they are making too many cartridges. Your dealer will replace such cartridge with a new one? Are you sure? Another member who posted about this problem could NOT solve it with his dealer.

Why not SoundSmith if you looking only for new cartridges ?

Did you watch his lecture, have you seen the lowest mass MC in comparison to the highest mass MI ? The difference is huge if favor to the MI (even with highest moving mass which is still very low copared to any MC). Do yourself a favor: In this video after 27:00 timeline. 
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
 now that Shure is out of the game, what are you doing for replacement styluses?

JICO SAS 
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
"What do you know about your arm, was the 103 a good match?"

Seems like a good match. 10 gram effective mass or so. It’s written down somewhere.

No way 10g is optimal for an oldschool low compliance cartridge like Denon 103. At least 20g effective mass! And very few modern arm will be as high in effective moving mass. 30g will be even better, remember that compliance of Denon 103 is extremely low, this is a stiff cartridge, so superheavy effective mass is a must!

Tonearms with 10g mass designed for mid of high compliance cartridges. It is always surprise me when people buying an oldschool monster like dl-103 without having an appropriate tonearm for this cartridge, it is absolutely pointless.  


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Maybe it is not just about math and resonance in theory, the low compliance cartridge just better on superheavy tonearms, they are designed for superheavy tonearms, change the arm to something with 20-30g effective mass and your Denon will be better on heavy arm. Very simple. With heavy arm like Fidelity-Research FR-64s you can only improve the sound of your Denon 103.


Static compliance of the Denon is widely thought to be around 10 (rule of thumb seems to be double the stated compliance of a Japanese cart).


You need dynamic compliance, no static.
And yes ... x 1.7 ... to find out the number at 10Hz



@yeti42

I’m going to try an SPU Royal N on an arm I can get up to 18g affective mass and it’s a heavy cartridge.

My SPU Royal G mkII was very impressive on FR-64fx and Lustre GST-801 tonearms, with its modern Replicant 100 stylus it will put any oldschool cartridges like DL-103 to a shame. The Royal N is just the same, but without SPU headshell if i remember correct. If you have high mass tonearm you can also look for FR-7fz or Miyabi cartridges.  





chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
You might want to consider a Miyajima.

Miyajima is a killer MC, i got one finally for my Ikeda IT-345 and it's Kansui model. 


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
The reviews often has nothing to do with reality, most of the reviewers never ever tried a bunch of exceptionally good vintage cartridges, they can only compare one new to another new models, this is a lack of knowledge and experience. It is almost impossible to find a negative review on anything, but the truth is that a great cartridge from the past with price tag under $1k can be better than new cartridge with price tag over $5k. The reviewer will not tell you about the winners from the past, they can only say something about a product they are reviewing. 

The best cartridges for the money are vintage MM/MI from the late 70s - early 80s. Some nice LOMC from the same era also 10 times cheaper than anything new and can be found NOS.

A choice of NEW cartridges is very limited and the price for inferior models are insane compared to vintage models in perfect condition. Some cheap modern cartridges are pure garbage in terms of sound quality, but the marketing department work well to promote them.
More to discover