Phase Coherence or Time Alignment: Which More Imp?

I just wouldn't focus so much on design. I would focus on what I thought would satisfy me over the long haul or you will be one of those with speakers for sell every few months. This debate about time and phase coherent speakers vs steep slope will go on forever with nothing being accomplished. Everyone is in a camp and will probably stay there until they gain enough experience listening (and becoming a critical listener)to understand what they are hearing and why.
I am in the time and phase camp and got there after many different speakers and years of analysis and listening.
Technically, ALL speakers are a trade off of one sort or another. However, phase and time aligned speakers come closer to reproducing the input signal than other designs. Steep slope speakers may swoon the listener but they have scrambled the output signal compared to the signal coming in. Would you buy an amp that screws up phase and time domain (actually high global feedback amps do this)?
Time and phase speakers are not perfect and there is lots to understand but for me, they simply sound more musical. Are they right for you? Only you can answer that.
Now, with all that said, one has to decide on what it is that they are after, wether it be dynamics, transparency or whatever. It is not arrived at easily. As your experience grows (and I actually think age plays a factor here)things will change and you may appreciate other designs.
So just don't get so caught up in all the design BS. It confuses the issue and will ultimately lead you to disappointment. Find something you like and go with it.
Also, no disrespect to Joseph Audio, but do you think he would recommend something he doesn't build? It would be like a Ford dealer telling you to buy a Toyota! If someone really cares about your musical enjoyment, they would tell you to satisfy yourself. It is you that has to be happy not them!

I have no doubt you build a quality product but so do a lot of others who believe in them as much as you. It's good that consumers have choices. If everyone liked the samething then we wouldn't need but one manufacturer! I'm all for driving the economy. But, who is to say what is right and what is wrong when it comes to listening on a personal basis? Nobody can sure decide which slope to use. Seems the best is whoever is doing the talking.
All I can do is relate my experiences in these threads for better or worse. I have been at this over 35 years. Based on that experience, it is wise that people go out and listen for themselves just as I have done(and the fellow who started this thread.) Does this mean I'm an "Authority?" No, it doesn't, but I do know what sounds good to ME and the point of these threads, I thought, was to share our personal experiences, not those who scream loudest get heard.
Most of the population has no clue to what crossover design is all about. I'm not so sure they need to know. Most don't know how a car is designed. They base their choice on looks and performance just as most do with speakers. I think here in the US, we boarder on false advertising way too much. It then makes everyone suspicious of every claim.
All I'm saying is you must satisfy oneself. It's your money and your satisfaction at stake.
Go out at listen for yourself and make a decision based on ones personal wants and needs (ie; does it look pretty or whatever.)
This "Best of the show" stuff is a little free advertising in these threads don't you think? Is that why these threads are here? Or is it for you to justify a point?
Your participation is always welcomed as any manufacturer would be but don't use it as a free format for advertisement. It just proves my point---your design based on your opinion is the one to go with. Hell, it may be but buying based on a show, review or especially advertisement is risky business at best. Tell people to compare your speakers side by side in the same room with the same electronics. Be confident enough to say comparison is welcome and recommended. That's all I'm saying.

Roy, I played sax for over 30 years and I became sold on time and phase speakers when listening to this instrument as well as other woodwinds (and other various instruments.) Other speakers with high slopes just destroyed a lot of what should have been there. For some years (in the past), I blamed it on electronics and/or the recordings. With time, I discovered what you already knew. I have found very few speakers that get the attack, decay and harmonics correct for me. It was extremely interesting to read your explanation and examples. It definitely follows what I personally hear.
I have noticed the positive recommendations you are receiving here and other places on your speakers. With the apparent unfortunate situation with Meadowlark, it looks like you, Richard V. and Thiel must carry the load.
It is good to see Green Mountain Audio being successful. I'm certainly going to have to give your product a whirl at some point.
Curently, I am investigating no negative feedback equipment. With time and phase coherent speakers, it has proven to be extremely interesting. There is something to it for sure. It seems to open up the presentation even more and further enhance that "You are there sensation." It is also interesting that time and phase coherent speakers, for all the critcisms they get for being laid back and not transparent, sure show this difference.

I have no doubt Jeff Joseph is a good designer based on his beliefs and having never met the man, I'll take your word that he is a good fellow(which I'm sure he is.) However, I'm of the camp that there is only one way to skin a cat. These two designs are too far apart for even a sorta right pick between them. Sorry, this falls into a more right or wrong area. Otherwise, it forms a who cares theory (which is probably a good one since most will pick what sounds best to them no matter what the design.)
My opinion certainly doesn't invalidate anyone else's choice. I'm sure these speakers have a loyal following just as most other brands. They just weren't for me.

Skrivis, I was refering to major manufactures of well established companies. It is good to hear that Bud Fried's work is being carried on. I always had a ton of respect for him and was sorry to see his passing. Audio lost another great man. If I may quote something he said, "Someday, all speakers will be time and phase coherent." He truly believed in this concept.
I didn't want to say much about Pat McGinty because I really have no first hand knowledge other than he closed shop. I wouldn't think a man of his potential would stay down for whatever reason. I agree with you and would expect his return in the future. Lets hope so.
So far, in the time and phase camp, I have tried Meadowlark, Vandersteen and Thiel. I have really got to try Roy Johnson's designs out at some point. I also go back to listen to steep slope speakers from time to time to help keep my perspective. Now that my kids are out of college and out of the house, I have plenty of free time. It's nice to get back into enjoying the hobby again.

In response to the above, in Richard Hardesty's "Audio Perfectionist Journal Watchdog list," a letter was posted by Bud Fried that was aimed at JA in Stereophile for stating that time and phase were unimportant. He went own with an explanation and then concluded by saying "I think someday ALL speakers will be time and phase coherent." I don't remember wether it was actually published or not but it does seem to be in direct contrast to the statemnt(s) made above. Now, did he have a change of heart in his old age, was he BS'ing JA or what's the deal here?
At any rate, it's nice to know that Richard Vandersteen is a second rate designer of time and phase coherent speakers. I feel somewhat disappointed that I and hundreds of thousands of others have put up with a rolled off speaker lacking in resolution and of questionable design. I guess I could call him tomorrow and ask for my money back. Of course he then would ask why and I would have to tell him that based on Jeff Joseph and some other fellow who has speakers coming out are the only ones who know how to make a speaker correctly. He would then ask where I saw this and I would say on 'Audiogon." When he got through laughing, he would probably tell me to kiss his ass!

If you read my posts above, I tried to express the theme that it is probably wise for the general "Audiophile" to not get so immersed in crossover engineering and go out and listen for themselves to the various designs. I also stated that it was THEIR money and satisfaction that was at stake.
I believe that a person's idea of "Good" sound is so highly variable that any and all designs can be considered.
I just happen to be in the first order camp and have been there for a long time. I have based my opinions on 40 years of experience of listening to various designed speakers in my own room side by side. I personally feel this is the only way to judge a speaker and unfortunately, many do not have this opportunity. I just don't think that dealers stores and shows are the place to make a decision (or honestly formulate an opinion) but that's the way it is.
As I have stated so many times, I feel that preserving the waveform is of great importance. I always step back from time to time and listen to other designs to maintain a perspective and to me personally, the compromise in higher slope speaker designs is just too great for crirical listening, even though, I will admit, some sound very good. Hell, I use steeper slope speakers in my home theater because I have never felt it was THAT important used in this context (with the exception that I do believe the drivers need to be matched.)
We will just have to agree to disagree on the ultimate merits of each design and I'm sure this debate will go on and on. It's always interesting though.