Percentage to spend on Amp and Speakers

Great speakers with a sub-par amp/pre-amp will never give you the true potential of the speakers. Amps are "fine tuning"? Time to get off the crack pipe.

Depends on the system and speakers. With really transparent and revealing speakers (like ribbons or full range esl's) it is easy and beneficial to spend much more on an amp (preferably 2 amps) and pre. This is not only rewarding but critical in this scenario. Not saying that source, interconnects and speaker wire are not important, but matching amps/pre with certain types of speakers is the most important link and makes all the difference in the listening experience.

We may not be talking $10,000 speakers, but Mike said he was going to spend $2,000. This will get you a pretty swell pair of speakers on the used market, especially if you shop patiently -- Theils, Martin Logan hybrids (or esl's), various Maggies, Vanderstein 2CE's, Dunlavy SC-IV's, Soundlabs, etc. All of these speakers will sound better with higher quality amplification. Here's the way I look at it... spend more on speakers now with lower quality amplification/source and when you upgrade speakers you'll find that amp/preamp/source combination to be even more lacking. Better speakers are more revealing of what is upstream. Guess what, now you're upgrading speakers and amp. The best upstream components you can afford will get the maximum potential of the speakers you buy now and also work better with future speaker upgrades. I prefer to buy components that I can upgrade around for a long time. For me, it's easier to simply replace speakers only. If, for some reason, there a "mismatch" down the road (highly unlikely with better quality electronics) you now have higher quality components that can be sold/traded for the comparable high quality piece that you want. The "crack pipe" remark was figurative. Sorry to offend anyone who took it literally.

Fellas, get a grip. $2,000 (and there are many fine speakers out there on the resale market for this price) will buy audio "nirvana"... for a while. This isn't about the near term, but what's best in the long term imho. We all want more later on. No??? I maintain that it's best, in the long run, to build a system from the inside out. Joe, if upgrading speakers "throws your system off" I wonder what you are using as the guts of your system??? I've purchased many amps/pre's at various price points and NEVER have they "thrown my system off". What exactly are you referring to? If your speaker are that discerning I would think that you would have a clue relative to the importance of your upstream components. I would understand trying to match a OTL amp to elctrostatics being a problem, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. What mismatch are you talking about? Please enlighten me. Amp/speaker "mismatches" are not so common unless... well, I don't want to accused of being "crude" again. Most of us like a particular "sound" and tend to choose our components along these lines. Really high quality amps/pre-amps don't turn in to "mismatches". Low end/mid-fi stuff does -- and untimately show their weaknesses with better, more revealing speakers. And, this is what most of us aspire and migrate to eventually. Joe, you're probably the kind of guy that would buy a Lotus Esprit with the normally aspiriated 4 cylinder engine. Looks good, doesn't go. Then you have either "upgrade" or buy something more suitable. Now do you understand "figurative"? This isn't about budget -- what I am suggesting can be done on a budget. I'm just saying that 75% (as some folks have suggested) on speakers is a short term move that will cost anyone who wants MORE a whole lot more money in the long run. If long term mid-fi is OK, then I guess this doesn't apply. Anyway, my intention was to offer Mike advice for the long run. I don't know about you guys, but I've known many of us who have "matched" components for the "here and now" (and current budget -- although I still maintain that decent speakers with excellent electrontics will sound better that decent speakers with decent electronics), only to upgrade EVERYTHING when the jones hit them. Build from the inside out and you can upgrade the peripherals. That's my take. My apologies in advance for all that I've offended.

Joe,I don't think we're connecting. I am not suggesting "changing speakers frequently", just trying to build a solid foundation for a long term upgrade path. Regarding the car/tires analogy, no I would not buy the tires first. I would get a machine with a great drivetrain/suspension design and upgrade components from there. I see the amp/pre as the drivetrain. Get it right and go from there. I still don't understand throwing the system out of balance when getting better speakers. I have experienced better speakers being revealing of what's upstream and have found that good electronics sound good with almost all speakers (yes, there are exceptions but these are extreme and obvious -- like trying to drive big SoundLabs with a low power triode amp -- and not likely in real world scenarios). Nothing is forever in this hobby, and there is no "best", we all get the jones for "more" at some time. Most of us will get better components at every point in our systems before we're done (most likely when we're buried). My approach works for me and allows me to go on upgrading for a long time (read: years, and not to be confused with changing speakers frequently) before having to make major changes in the guts of the system. I guess it comes down to different strokes for different folks.