PC-Audio vs. High-end CD Player-GAME OVER

I still believe that in most, not highest-end budget situations, the PC-Audio will sound better than comparable CD Players. I am just not willing to extend that logic to "PC will beat any high-end CDP any time" simply because I have not heard enough comparisons to make the judgment. However, it seems safe to say that the industry as a whole is moving to the on-line download path, albeit at a much slower pace than some here claim.

I think we should also take price into consideration. Now I have not had the pleasure to own or listen to Alex's NWO CD transports, and have no doubut that they are excellent.

However, many people are hearing no comparable differences between, say a Meridian 808 ($13000) vs. Wavelength Cosecant ($3500) + existing iMac (new ones can be had for around $1500). Even with external hard drives, we're talking less than $6,000 for a system that is indistinguishable (or better) than a $13,000 cdp.

Another thing to consider is that many many people simply are not able to spend over 10 grand for a CD player, but pretty much all of them have PCs or Macs - and have the option of spending a couple grand on a very good DAC + external HDD to get a performance unthinkable by spending similar amount of money on a single box CDP.

And all of this is *before* considering the enormous advantage of ease of having thousands of songs at your fingertips.

So, again, I agree that APL NWO, or other cost-no-object CDPs may still be better than the PC-audio setups, but how much difference are we really talking about here? It's not like teenagers listening to mp3's just because they are super convenient at the huge expense of audio quality. People listening to uncompressed wav or lossless files are not merely sacrificing fidelity for convenience.

Also, only audiophiles say vinyl is not dead. Look around and see how many new music (including classical and jazz) are being issued in LP format. Vinyl is not dead only in the sense that there are niche producers re-issuing classics and producing excellent LP players.

Thank you for pointing out that NWO is a CDP. Someday, I would love to hear one.

But again, you're using a $30K LP setup as a comparison. I never made any claims that a $30K LP (or dedicated CDP for that matter) will surpass the PC + DAC combo. My point is that if you spent the same, let's say, $5,000 on a PC + DAC vs. CDP, which would come out on top? What about $3,000 PC + DAC vs. CDP.

Anyway, when you think about it the CD will be dead if (a big if) the major studios determine that they are no longer making money off them, and if the on-line download market becomes big enough to make pressing CD's no longer worthwhile. And companies like Sony, Samsung, etc. stop making mass-market CDP's (or DVD players). So you can see that huge assumptions have to be made to declare that CD will be dead soon, and it will not matter a tiny bit to the studios whether there is an excellent PC+DAC setup...OR...whether there is a small manufacturer out there that makes fantastic CDPs for a small number of people. Unfortunately, what the audiophile market says will be irrelevant to the demise (or continued existence) of the CD medium.

Like Alex said, there currently is a 30K vinyl rig that will blow all CDs and SACD players away, in full production, and anyone with enough money can buy it. But that doesn't mean Deutsche Gramophone or Decca will come back issuing the new Berlin Phil or Metropolitan Opera recordings on LPs.

I believe the arguments are two-tracked:

1. Will the PC/Mac download + DAC system kill the CD?

2. Does the high-end PC/MAC setup kill the high-end CD player?
2.1. Does it kill (or comparable to) the APL NWO?

Now, Alex of APL is making both general remarks about the noisy PC power supply, etc. and specific remarks that NWO is leagues better than anything PC audio has to offer.

I think the general remarks are, as always, theoretical at best. Didn't we think that bits are bits so theoretically all CD players, or transports sound the same in the past? :)

If we get down to specifics, this is where it gets fun. What's to stop people with NWO's (or any other high-end CDPs) from comparing that against the best PC Audio setup? I for one, look forward to listening to what others have to say AFTER doing some comparative (or competitive ;)) listening between the two.

Alex,

Sorry to see you go. But it is interesting that you think memory chips may be in the future after all. I am sure that a big part of your design strengths will equally translate well into PC-based systems. I don't need to remind you that as a manufacturer, your opinions will always be viewed with a certain level of skepticism (I would apply the same to, hypothetically speaking, another manufacturer selling primarily PC-based DACs). Facts of life such as being what they are.