PC-Audio vs. High-end CD Player-GAME OVER

GAME OVER indeed!

I can't wait for those "dead CDs" to hit the market. I got some really nice "dead vinyl" collections that way too.

:-)

Regards,
Alex

Until you've listened to one, you can't say a word about it. I have owned MANY high end CD players, and can say with confidence there is NO sonic reason to miss the CD sound

I am actually DYING to A-B one! And BTW, what MANY high end CD players mean? Can you please list them?

, or deal with the inconvenience anymore

That is more like it! Many thought they wouldn't deal with the inconvenience anymore and sold all of their vinyl for CDs. Now they regret it.

What can I say; this entire PC-based audio rave is, once again, not based on audio quality but on convenience. It is unbelievable! Do you really think that maximum can be obtained from a Noiseball Audio? Not in my book! But it seem that the importance on audio quality is very low here!

Regards,
Alex

Pschoi, why a $3K or $5K CDP does not sound as good as a comparable PC-Audio/DAC speaks for the CDP, not the PC-Audio/DAC.

I agree with you, but it seems like you are the only one around here to acknowledge that PC-Audio is not "the best". Others say it is GAME OVER and THE BEST. So this is what I disagree with.

But that doesn't mean Deutsche Gramophone or Decca will come back issuing the new Berlin Phil or Metropolitan Opera recordings on LPs.

I don't know about LPs but they have many of those on SACDs, it is "good enough" for me. :-) With close to 5000 SACDs currently available (and growing), I am very happy!

Regards,
Alex

I did A/B, many times. For example my Cosecant against an $8k Meridian G08 at a dealer. A room full of people were shocked that the Cosecant killed it, including the owner. The 808 (which is an upsampling player)was another story. You could hear a little deeper in with the 808, but didn't have the pretty sound the Cosecant has. I would have loved to see Crimson against the 808. But either way, these are $8k and $12k respectively. Worth the money after what heard? No freakin way!

Even the single box dSC 8pi player at $15K outperforms the Meridian 808 Signature. Of course, the EMM Labs Signature betters the dCS. This is reported somewhere here on Audiogon - "Blind Shootout in San Diego". So that's why I asked you what your reference is. Now I know!

I have very nice equipment from VTL and my DAC. Wavelength is tops, and there is no sonic compromise (from an audiophile standard) with ANY of Gordon's DACs. Give one a listen first, then come talk to me.

Oh, I am sure!

Regards,
Alex

Pschoi, the NWO is not a transport; it is a stand alone universal digital player. No need for DAC or preamp.

So, again, I agree that APL NWO, or other cost-no-object CDPs may still be better than the PC-audio setups,

That's it! Thank you!

but how much difference are we really talking about here?

Here is an experiment for you when time permits;

Get a $30K+ vinyl rig with the new AirTight PC-1 cartridge, buy the Bassface Swing Trio "Plays Gershwin" on vinyl that was recorded direct-to-disc. This LP comes as a bundle with an SACD inside that was recorded direct-to-DSD. So setup the vinyl rig and ANY PC-Audio/DAC combination of your choice, then A-B the two. Let me know if the PC-Audio/DAC surpasses the vinyl rig.

Oh sorry, I forgot, you can't even play SACD on the PC-Audio/DAC combo. :-)

Regards,
Alex

Hello David,

However, given how good my system sounds, along with the fact that I never have to get up out of the chair, I think that I may turn into a doorstop.

With all due respect to you and your fine sounding system, here are few points I'd like to introduce:

1. Many digital designers would agree that the noisy switching power supply in a PC-based audio can never come even close to a linear power supply, especially if R-Core power transformers are used. A "nice DAC" (or any other “solution”) can not help eliminating the switching power downsides. This includes a Laptop because the battery feeds a switching power supply inside.

2. Most audiophiles will confirm the unquestionable superiority of SACD and DVD-A over 44/16 Redbook CD, so having the world's best VRDS-NEO disc spinner capable of playing SACD, DAD, DVD-A and DVD Video is a welcomed feature, especially with close to 5000 SACD titles currently available.

4. The 32 bit/20 DACs per channel NWO-3.0GO universal digital player comes with a standard 192/24 digital input (you can actually hit it with 216/24) so you can enjoy the convenience of your PC-based HDD library while using the player as a DAC. You can also spin your SACDs, DADs, DVD-As, DVD Video and CDs on the VRDS-NEO if best results are desired.

5. The NWO-3.0GO comes with an optional Analog input so those hard-core audiophiles can spin their vinyl through it. Since the NWO has a built in remote controlled H-Attenuator, it negates the need of a preamp.

I hope you can hear one soon and let us know your impressions!

Regards,
Alex

The drives, memory, processors and interfaces in the PC-Audio are powered with the noisy switching power. You can isolate this from the DAC but that does not help anything when it comes to the actual data processing.

Isolating the DAC from the PC brings an obvious improvement. Why? Try supplying your DAC from the switching power supply in the computer and see what happens with the sound.

It is very interesting to me that no one acknowledges the fact that PC-Audio remains powered by the noisy switching supply. But it does not end here. How about the fact that your audio data is being transformed to many different protocols inside the computer so it can be processed and stored? Do you really believe this can be a better solution compared to a quiet linear powered and precision clocked dedicated audio DSP directly hooked up to the DAC with 5 inches long cables? Not in my book!

Again, convenience and nice sound is a suitable description for PC-Audio. But when it comes to the best possible audio quality, I will have to disagree.

Finally, I have 5 desktops and 2 laptops here. :-)

Regards,
Alex

Now, Alex of APL is making both general remarks about the noisy PC power supply, etc. and specific remarks that NWO is leagues better than anything PC audio has to offer.

Pschoi,

Indeed, no one can stop audiophiles from comparing. I've always welcomed A-B tests and so called "shootouts" so audiophiles can judge for themselves. Last weekend we had another shootout in San Diego between the NWO-3.0GO and a very nice vinyl setup featuring the new AirTight PC-1 reference MC cartridge. It was a very nice and informative experience, as always.

My intention posting here was not bragging about the NWO superiority but to remind many who are interested in PC-Audio that, as good as it is, it is not flawless. So “the best” and “game over” don’t really fit, IMO. I personally don't see the future of High-End audio on HDD. It could be Memory chips, but certainly not HDD. Wi-Fi for High-End audio is out of the question too. This is only my opinion of course.

There is no point arguing here, plus, there are many things I simply can not further elaborate. I give up, so this my last post here. Happy listening!

Regards,
Alex