Pass Labs ALEPH 5 vs ALEPH 2

I've had the 5 and the 2 and now have the 1.2 Alephs. The two is the best sounding of the bunch if you have sensitive speaker, the right room etc. The 2 has 100 watts per side and the 5 has 60 per side. The 2's are like having two 5's in terms of power supply. Budget and speaker sensitivity will tell the story...either way you will be happy. Don't be a fool...keep the aleph's until they run out of electricity. I've tried more than a few and keep coming back. You might try to find some 60 watt monoblocks...aleph 60's. I saw them here not long ago. Same power supply as the 2's. Good luck.

Sayas,
Thanks ! SC-4 is sensitive so I have never gone beyond 12 o'clock.
Back to the orginal topic, IMO, 2 and 3 are the best choices in the Aleph family based on the design and spec if speakers are sensitive enough.

Good point, Sayas. With my EMC-1 and MD100 tuner I set gains at about 10 o'clock, using volume from noon to full max (4 o'clock). Still probably passive, but man does it sound active!

no hijack subaruguru, always interested to learn something new.

Cdma I would suggest that the P is an idea match to the aleph amps and might suggest that the P doesn't begin to amplify until very late on the gain knob 4 to 5 oclock with mains set at off or 7 oclock. This is the case in my system. I have considered the P as passive in my system until the volume is wound right out, to two or three click to full volume, again with mains set at the off position,

Yes, all the 2 stage Alephs need a high-output pre; the Aleph P essentially provides the third stage that was there in the original first Aleph, I think, along with a fine servo-driven stepped attenuator. It's an incredibly quiet, neutral preamp, and of course drives the Alephs seamlessly.
The remote is the best, too. Having separate gain and volume controls allows one a "balance" control as well the ability to dial in a bit of stage depth variability, although I simply follow nelson's advice and use the final attenuator set at upper scale, with gain pots semi-permanently set mid-scale, slightly unqual to offset assymmetry of room. Works great. Let's not hijack the thread....

Subaruguru,
I haven't pay too much attention to P in the past so have no idea about what you said. But I do remember seeing somewhere that Aleph amp prefers higher pre-amp output and a possible stepping attenuator upgrade for P. Also if I use bigger transformer, cap and heatsink, I might be able to increase the bias for better sound and higher current. Now I'm thinking about fine tuning my Aleph 2 and upgrading ARC LS-3b to P. What do you think about P comparing to the others ? a noticable upgrade from LS-3b? Thanks !

Cdma, I heard a while back that getting a bigger power transformer was a help for the Aleph P pre (which I use to drive the 2 monos). Any truth to that, and if so, is it cost-effective? I don't really need to open a can of worms for myself or anybody else, however! Thanks.

You're patly right, that's what was shown in service manual but doubling down shown in my owner's manual. Based on its circuit, more likely 200w for 4 ohms. If fact Aleph amp is so good that I'm going to diy myself after the parts and enclosure arrives.
OTOH, rule number one, you need the speakers on the efficient side in order to appreciate how good Aleph is because its full-time class A and single-end/2-stage design.

Isn't the Aleph 2 160w into 4 ohms? (Not quite doubling down)

Each outputs 100w into 8 ohm but 200w into 4 ohm for aleph 2 only. I believe aleph 2's have higher bias current and damping factor because separate transformer and separate enclosure for better heat dissipation.

Thanks for all of the responses, I apologize for the confusion I caused, I originally meant to seek a comparison between the ALEPH 4 at 100 watts and ALEPH 2 also at 100 watts as Jshaw1004 alludes too. I am still not sure if I appredciate the difference.

I used to have Aleph 0 (75 WPC, 3 gain stages). Now, I own both Aleph 2 and X-600. They are all excellent power amps.

Some facts:
Aleph 0: 75WPC, mono blocks, 3 gain stages.
Alpeh 5: 60WPC, stereo
Aleph 2: 100WPC, mono blocks, power consumption 300 watts for each (600 total). One transformer for each.
Aleph 4: 100WPC, stereo, power consumption 500 watts. One bigger transformer (I believe) for both channels.

Not sure why Pass Labs will release Aleph 4 after Aleph 2, since they are both 100 WPC, the same design and same grade of parts and I don't know which model is better. Maybe just to reduce some cost without sacrificing the sonic performance for marketing purpose.

At the time, I was living in an area where temperatures easily exceeded 100 degrees. I was driving Quad electrostatics on a very hot day and sitting far back in a large room. I was playing very loud and very dynamic jazz that had been recorded live. I think the combination was just too much. The Alsph 5 heat sensor, I believe, turned it off for awhile.

Otherwise, I have never had a single interruption, let alone failure, of any kind with Pass stuff. The best designed, best built electronics in the business, IMHO.
JT

my 5 has never shut down, never heard of an aleph that did!

Hi:
I am a dedicated Pass lover and have had several amps, including both the Aleph 5 and Aleph 2. Let's clear away some misconceptions.
1. The Aleph 5 has 60 watts, not 100, and a smaller power supply.
2. The Aleph 2 has 100 watts per chassis, with larger power supplies dedicated to each individual chassis.
3. Thye have the EXACT same number of gain stageds and circuit topology, possibly excepting the feedback loop--I don't know if they use the same amount of feedback, but it is low in both cases.
4. Both are wonderful sounding amplifiers, with that spooky magic that audiophiles love. The Aleph 2, however, will sail along in situations where the Aleph 5 will clip or shut down.
5. For further questions, yalk to Perter Perkins at Pass Labs. The man is a saint and quite knowledgable.

Good luck,
Jeffrey

Save your money.If your speakers are 8ohm and ~ 90dB the aleph-3 is the one to get.
The bass is better than most (who havent heard one) think and the soundstage is huge.The inner detail and transparency is top notch.
As the reviewer from Stereophile mentioned in the review of this amp "its like listening to air"

Mr. Nelson mentioned more than once publicly 2 is his favorite ! I owned 5 and own 2. IMO, 2 is better. Maybe I should try 3 since my speakers are on the sensitive side.

I've owned an Aleph 5 and found it a very pleasing amp indeed. As has been hinted at, it seemed like the power rating was a bit exagerated (to my ears it was). Still a great SS amp. I also borrowed a friends Aleph 30 and had a similar experience Ejlif in that the difference did not seem too profound and the power gain did not seem all that great. Both were great SS amps to me. The only thing is I'm not a big SS fan, and as much as they tried they did not give me what I prefered (holography, space, airiness). I went back to tubes and stayed there. To counter Ejlif's observation, one of the all time greatest buys in all audio IMO is a a pair of Quicksilver MiniMites at the same $900 as an Aleph 3 (30). I now have these in my works system where the Aleph 5 once was. For me these little tube amps give me far more satisfaction and are much more engaging than my Aleph 5 ever was. Just one more opinion to confuse things further. If I had to recommend a reasonably priced SS amp though, I'd certainly point someone to an Aleph series. No experience with the 2's but you have plenty of good info to go on above.

Good luck!

Marco

I have owned both the Aleph 3 at 30 watts and the 2s. I upgraded to the 2s from the 3 mostly for more power. The power difference was not that much, a little better bass. I did actually prefer the sound of the 3 however overall. I kept the 2s since I wanted the extra power. If you can get by with 30 watts the 3 has to be one of the greatest buys in all of audio for around 900.00 used.

jtin is correct the 5 is 60 watts or about 2db quieter in volume capability!

is the mono block a better platform? maybe...or maybe more to go wrong.

the difference between a 5 and a pair of 2's is very limited. they both have the same number of gain stages 2. the 5 to my ears is more tube like, offering a little less driver control when driven to moderate levels.

I don't know your speakers however either amp will perform well, and like horsepower the little extra the 2's give is not a bad thing.

both units consume 300w per chassis.

good luck finding your next amp

If I am not mistaken, the Aleph 2 has fewer gain stages and certainly will be better due to the separate power supplies.

The are terrific amplifiers.

All things being equal, individual chassis mono-blocks will always perform better than a common chassis stereo amp. While some will argue that the differences are measurable but not audible, i beg to differ. Sean
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The Aleph 5's output is 60 wpc into 8 ohms. The Aleph 4's output is 100wpc into 8 ohms and is the stereo version of the Aleph 2's.