I have the same S1 setup as you but I also have Paradigm Signature in-ceiling for the rear 7.1's. Although the S1's are an incredible speaker, I always feel they are on the edge when listening at reference levels. They do it, but you blowing the woofer confirms my suspicion that they ARE on the edge at reference levels or beyond. I have had mine bottom out on me in the past and it is an ugly sound. Also, the maximum input power for the S1 is 100 watts, not 175. 15-175 watts is the suitable amplifier power range.
I think the S1's are more than up to the task of surround duty but I think I push them too hard when using them as mains and center. Sounds like you're in the same boat. I intend to leave the ADP1's for sides and I might put the S1's into duty as direct radiating rears. The C1 will probably go up for sale here on Audiogon.
I am looking at the W5 Signatures on-wall since I have a WAF to deal with, which is the reason I got the small S1's to begin with. Personally, I think your solution is to get front's and a center that have a higher power handling than the S1's, such as the sig S4 or higher. The W5's for example have an maximum input power of 225 watts and a suitable amplifier power range of up to 475 watts.
Good luck. |
Also, all the Signature speakers are voiced the same, so you don't have to worry about integration. That goes for V2 vs V3 and for up and down the signature tree. |
Thx Goodcoc. I've heard the v3's are more efficient. Also if I change to S2's, they are ported and won't be timbre matched with a sealed C1 center and sealed ADP1's. I would have to change to the C3 and ADP 3's V2 or V3. Correct?? Also some say the S2's are the best for money out of all the Signature series. They would blend better with my SVS PB13 Ultra than the S1's. Fill in the midbass more as they go lower, I think 43.
Regards Paul |
First off, I'm not so sure that it would be necessary to change out the entire system. The entire Sig line is timbre matched and similarly voiced. The ADP1's would serve you fine for the sides. As well, the C1 is one of the recommended matching center speakers for the S2 according to paradigm. It is not a matter of timbre matching, it really comes down to volume and both the S1 and the S2 are under-sized for reference volume in any thing but small rooms, ie.- 600 sq. ft or less. You didn't mention your room size so I can't really give you a solid recommendation except to say that you should be choosing your upgrade based upon the power handling of the speakers considering your listening habits. You obviously like things loud at times. You blew the S1 and it's my opinion there is a good chance you could blow out an S2 at your listening volumes. The S1 and the S2 are fantastic performers, but the S2 has a max of 140 watts of amplifier power, which is more than the S1 but not by much. So, unless you're in a small room I would suggest nothing less than the S4's for the fronts, or just keep the volumes down. 105-110 dB is REALLY pushing the S1 and S2 to their limits which is not a great idea. The S4 and up can do that comfortably with the proper amplification. All the Signature speakers are a great value for the money imo, but if you're going to upgrade, I say do it smartly so you get what you want when you turn the volume up.
It's all just my opinion, but I know what you have and I'm in the same boat. All I want to worry about with my next upgrade are my ears, not the speakers. |
Gooddoc, In my situation would you move to V3's? Stay with the V2? Or get a set of S4's, V2 or V3?? I do listen to 2 channel alot but I am about 70/30 movies/music. My listening room is 15 x 20.
Regards Bacardi |
As I said, I'm at the same crossroads as you. Your choice really comes down to your budget(doesn't it always). But this is how I see it.
The S6 or S8, paired with a C3 or C5 are the ideal speaker for your room size and for 2 channel. V2 or V3, doesn't matter. Obviously, V3 will have a higher output, but the V2's are more than adequate and the dealers will be looking to make deals to clear the inventory. Money no object: V3. I haven't auditioned the S6's, but I have listened to the S8 V2's and all I can say is you don't realize how hard you've been pushing those S1's until you hear the effortlessness of the S8's at higher volumes. It is simply unbelievable, pure, moving....you get the picture? One thing I know is that Paradigm is putting a lot of pressure on their dealers to limit the discounts off the V3's. 2 channel, sans sub, with either of those speakers would be awesome. With some decrement to 2 channel, and paired with a sub, the S4 would be a good choice for ht. Paradigm discontinued the S4, so their will likely be some great V2 deals to be had as the inventory clears. The S4 is a BIG bookshelf, but too small to be a floorstander, which is probably why it is discontinued now that the S6 exists. However, it's a good choice from a value perspective at this time. It's an excellent alternative to the S6 if you don't mind its odd size(I find it too big to be on a stand, but that is purely subjective) If you decide to go for another S1 or the S2, definitely get the V3 since you'll need every ounce of headroom you can get. |
Gooddoc, thx for your info...have you looked into or heard the Signature Sub 1 or 2? My good friend who works at Power Center and only Paradigm seller in town said his co- worker heard a Sub 1 and said the bass is just jaw-dropping. He said a glass of water on the top of the sub didn't even slide off at high volumes. I wonder how it would compare to my SVS PB13 Ultra??
Regards Paul |
I haven't heard the Sub 1 or Sub 2 but I have read some reviews of the Sub 2 that are literally mind boggling. Anechoic measurements of 97 dB @ 10 Hz, 106dB @ 20Hz, 120 dB @ 60Hz. Add 10-15 dB of room gain and you're talking almost 115 dB at 10 Hz. That is ridiculous bass, I couldn't stop laughing just thinking about putting that thing in my living room. Everything on shelves and walls had better be glued or strapped down, lol. My Servo 15 is a joke by comparison. If you can afford it they appear to be incredible in design AND performance.
Are you considering getting one of these? If so you MUST report back on the performance. I'm jealous. At this point I am looking to upgrade my fronts and center to the S6 or S8 and the C5 or C3 center and it is stretching my budget to make that happen. A new sub is not in the cards right now, but reading about the Sub 2 has certainly taken away some of the enthusiasm I was having for my Servo 15. It's kind of like pissing off a bridge and turning to the guy next to you and proudly telling him how cold the water is....then he turns to you and says, "yea, and deep too!" |
Gooddoc, I had a servo 15 before I bought my SVS PB 13Ultra. It was very musical but I noticed I had to have the subs volume almost full for music to hear bass. Then when I got my SVS I definitely got what I was missing. Great sub though. Anyways, I was reading up on the Signature inwalls and they look amazing as opposed to the onwalls(w series). They even have an inwall box that is sold seperately for $400. There is a review on Hometheatereview.com. If I had that money I would get those and a Sub 1 and a Sub 2.
Regards Bacardi |
I dont see a S2 being a upgrade in a S1 in volume output unless your running them full range, or at 60HZ, etc. Obviously the S1 should be crossed over around 90-150HZ for loud levels. The S2 probably 80-120HZ. If there is bottoming out, then they are crossed over to low, period. The tweeters are the same in the S1, S2, and even S8! So, obviously its cross over, amp power related. Setting them to low could blow either driver, not just the mid woofer. It could also be the Paradigms just wont cut it period, just as my 100 V.3 x 5 system never did. I wanted reference levels so I looked for different speakers all together. Happy I did. |
If you arent getting midbass, get the svs ultra13 away from the corner/walls, and on spikes. Also consider a sms-1 or sub EQ. The SVS Ultras are beasts, and can take time to sound right crossed over high as needed on the S1's. I have dual ultra SVS subs and keep mine away from walls, on spikes, and under the center channel if possible to have seamless integration with the mains. |
Sthomas12321, maybe I should go with a S4 with better midrange integration with my sub. Also, the problem I made was I am running all my S1v2's as large. That could be why I blew the bass driver. My bad. They just all sounded better as large than small. The C1 center can handle it having two woofers and more efficiency. I have my S1's mounted beside my 58" plasma being sealed cabinets. But the S4's are ported and would fill the midrange better with more efficiency, volume, impact and can be run large as my center. I would probably go to the C3 to blend the front better... What would you suggest?
Regards Bacardi |
Yeah, I figured you must be running them at a low or no cross over setting.
Sounds like your ears are like mine, Ive always preffered more full range floor standers and a sub set at 40-60HZ. I bet you would like the S4's better. You can run your sub & S1's at 100HZ or higher, but you will likely never truly get the sub to disappear, its just hard to do that with one sub over 60HZ in my opinion.
I would look into paradigm reference 100's v5 or 60 v5's for fronts and backs(match them). The V5 is basically a Signature V1 speaker at a bargain price. Plus you can run them grilles off if you prefer because FINALLY Paradigm got rid of the wave guide grills. I hated the fact that Paradigm designed speakers around the grill after the V2 series. |
Even with the Paradigm 100's Id run them with a 40hz cross over setting. Your subs going to do better job, and movies should be much more fun. It still sounds like the issue is your subs getting to much boom, or room low end gain. That sub should be smoother then the s1, s2, s6, s8's could ever be from say 80hz and down when set up right.
A sub like the SVS Ultra doesnt need corner placement. You wont get it smooth unless you seriously eq it. Even under the TV and center channel placement can drop pictures off the walls, so again, no need for corner low bass boom.
Hope this gives some ideas to try. |
