Paper Cones in HiFi?

larryi2,563 posts08-03-2021 3:53pmYou can find many examples of current drivers that are very expensive that utilize paper cones--AER, Feastrix, Fostex, and G.I.P. come to mind.

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As in Voxativ
Employs super thin papyrus paper, My tech badgers me all the time**You did not hear the Voxativ set up in a  proper horn cabinet...***. well true. 
Still , that 12x12x12 cabinet  gave me all I want to know.
Tapping on the papyrus (PAPER!) cone,,, its was like no bass whatsoever,,I was thinking,,how in the world is this driver going to go down to low bass??? 
You can tap on a cone and get some inkling of an idea how it will respond to bass fq's. 
We will see how the DavidLouis treated paper cone responds in the 60hz zone.
Drums specifically. 
The Seas magnesium is the best midwoofer ever made for bass guitar. But you will need a  Mundorf SESGO or Supreme Silver to get the results. 
In drums/percussion kettles, Scanspeak wins the prize. 

There is paper, and there is paper. Paper is a laminate of wood (mostly) fibers, and can be a very sophisticated product.

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Sure
Scanspeaks paper composites are not regular old paper, The material is complex and have excellent, if not the very best lowest end  drum/percussion  reproduction.

For jazz i think the Scanspeak line are the best midwoofers.
I  listen to classical and so the Magnesium material has less (near zero) upper bass/low mids coloration.
A friend describes the Magnesium as being **neutral*.

I've recently made ~~NUMEROUS~~ posts (more than the board can take). Concerning issues with anything paper/paper composite (Exceptions to every rule as you know). 
I've heard countless paper cones in the 1970's/1980's. Thats  just about the best that was offered back then..
But in 2002 when I began my speaker search,,I came across a  Seas Magnesium cone,, NOt knowing what the k=hoot magnesium was/sounded like,,I went ahead and trust the old famous Norwegain lab  on cone material choice.

IMHO, and for my musical sound preferences,, this material seems to work best for how i want to hear upper bass/lower mids.

Can the Magnesium do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6B6WjAzuc8&t=5s

No
The W18 magnesium can not match the Scanspeak paper composite in this extremely accurate drum solo. STUNNING!!!

AS with any cone material there are tradeoffs.
I give up deep accurate rock soild drums, but gain in other fq's.
I just do not ever wish to hear a  paper/paper composite style mid cone.
Brings up old memories of a era I wish to forget..
That said, I do like  upper bass in the davidLouis 4 inch wide band **treated *paper composite cone.
I have the DL 6.5 arriving in days.
I am expecting same nice tight upper bass, maybe hitting 60hz...and  hopefully avoiding that **paperish* resonances.
Which explains why I would never come around to anything Wilson, nor Vandersteen. 

Dont get me wrong,  the Denmark lab, Scanspeak makes incredible midbass speakers. 
Equal to the Magnesium
But  do expect the paper type resonances in upperbass/lower midrange. 

Troels has no issues using Scan's or Seas new Nextel treated paper in his best designs... 
Just not my cup of tea.

A friend of mine spends a small fortune collecting as many Western Electric or Altec paper coned drivers (515 or 555 or something like that) as he can get his hands on. The cones are so old they crumble if touched. The sound, however, is very lively and articulate when these drivers are used in his full-range, multi-driver designs

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These 1929 Colortura made in Chicago, Telefunken made in Berlin and your friends, WE, 's, EV's, and not to forget Jensen's, all have nice high fidelity midrange. These drivers set the bench mark for high fidelity.

I have tested some new wide bands, found the Voxativ a  bit weak if not worse,,and have stayed with a  line out of china, DavidLouis. 
Female voice very accurate, bass, YES, highs, yes.
4 inch. 
Some stress in midrange/= distortion,,but livable  up to mid vol.

I may be naive or uninformed


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Note all the Wilson reviews. Not even once do they mention Sacspeaks paper composite style sound.
No thanks.
magnesium is superior to paper in upper bass./low midrange.
Seas has magnesium.
Wilson offers Scanspeak paper comp sound.
No thank you.
Lets get real here folks.
No more snakeoil

always thought paper cones were for low end Radio Shack speakers.

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You thought right. 
paper composites will always retain paper characteristics,, 
YUCKKKK in upper bass/low mids

If Magnesium was not offered, 
I'd have no choice but to go with paper. 
Thankfully Seas figured out how to get Magnesium to work,

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=49&Itemid=246

Seas answer to Scanspeaks newest paper composite woofers which are indeed phenomenal..
But this NX001,  a  driver which  Troel Gravesen had some imput in the design, (Titanium voice coil etc), 
This NXE001 is something equal to Scanspeaks top midwoofers.
WOW factor off the charts.
Tempting for sure,, but I think I'm going to swap the bottom W18E001 for a  Magnesium W22 EX001.
Seas vs Scanpsek, 6 of 1 /half dozen the oher
But I am a  Seas devotee for life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCZ8qDDStk

  but some people like the flavorizer called…. Distortion


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its out there and most folks don't know it.
Magesium may be the most neutral voicing material for midwoofers. 

Thiel, Vandersteen, Wilson, 
These names mean absoluetly nothing to me, 
What I want to know is where did they buy their midwoofers,,and what kind of cone material  are they using.
Thats it.
Names signify nothing. 
UNless of course its 
Troel Gravesen
name of the spaker,, Then yeah,  I know I'm getting best bang cone material.
Not sure why Troels never designed a  dual W22 Magnesium + Cresendo tweeter.
For me, thats the ultimate speaker.
Ultimate.
WEll 2nd only to Dual Graphene W22's, 
But you are gonna need cash for that  one, Still alottttt less price vs Wilson's over rated Scanspeaks. 

Magnesium is some sort of super damp, yet extremely accurate bass/upper mids. 
sens is a  bit low at 87, 
Better go W18EX or even better W22EX,,or even more cash W22 Graphene, wow factor off the charts.

DavidLouis is alos sharing spot light with the Seas.
The lil Kasun paper tweet 91db sens, ain't no joke either.
Throw in Mundorf's Silver supremes, and = best bang for the speaker buck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI5TZ4KCE_Y

I will have issues with the Wilson line, I know it. 
I never like a midrange in a  speaker. And the Wilson's will only confirm what I already know.

The dealer said that it is 95 db/w efficient, s

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95!!!!!! db sens,, in a  15 incher,,WOW, = $2k from a  Scanspeak = bargain. 
One of those guys + a Seas W16 Graphene  + a  Seas Crescendo = blows anything from Wilson's  in all shootouts. 

I just got the DavidLouis 6.5 wide band. 
For under $500,  this driver looks stunning,
The paper is soem sort of composite and has kick to the tap of my finger,,, 
Waiting for tech to open shop tomorrow so we can get the DL wired up N running/YT vid tomorrow.
I am expecting stunning results,, 
Some tech geek over there in china knows  how to make a  wide band.
This guy is a  speaker guru genius. 
The Vox I had  will not stand up in any fq's to this materful designed wide band from ~~China~~
Yeah I know, how often have I emphatically stated here,,~~China can not make a  speaker~~, I am eating those words. 
Beats the Seas wide band  in all fq's as well.
I've been cking every inch of the driver for 1 hour, and am amazed at the contsruction/design. 
I do not think there is  wide band  in current production that will beat it in any shootout in any fq range.
The lil 4 incher is extremely accurate in vocals. Has bass puch and highs that do not roll off til say 12k region,
FOUR INCH wide band doing it all!!!
I'd put this 6.5 up against anything from Feastrex/AER, Voxativ.
Let me say this, although the Vox did not get its required horn cabinet, Vox will have to come up with alotttt more than what I heard  with their AC1A  demo in a   12x12x12 inch /1/4 inch plywood test cabinet.
Vox/AER has many models, so i can not say  how the shootouts will do down. 
Then again, @ $450, I could care less if Vox/AER/Feastrex blows away the DL. 
But again, the shootout might just be close ORRRR
The DL6.5  might come out last speaker standing at speaker shootout at 
~~The Old OK Corral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAFNVCXk93Y